A few more questions

[kylewoody]

Hey guys,

I'm still getting into this hobby - and loaded with questions!

One being, I have changed to the Southern Railway as my N scale layout... modelling the late '40's to early '50's so I can run some steam and diesel.

How do I know what lines they had back then? I have got a few good books today on the Southern at the museum, but was wondering - can I just look on Yellowpages maps, or Googleearth and assume that anything Norfolk Southern owns (the resultant merger) would have been their line in my timeframe?

I really want to model somewhere in middle Alabama... perhaps around Birmingham, anywhere down to about the Montgomery area (northside being Pratville, soutside being around the general area of Evergreen, even over to Andalusia).

Thanks!
Kyle

 

[Cjcrescent]

Hey guys,

I'm still getting into this hobby - and loaded with questions!

One being, I have changed to the Southern Railway as my N scale layout... modelling the late '40's to early '50's so I can run some steam and diesel.

How do I know what lines they had back then? I have got a few good books today on the Southern at the museum, but was wondering - can I just look on Yellowpages maps, or Googleearth and assume that anything Norfolk Southern owns (the resultant merger) would have been their line in my timeframe?

I really want to model somewhere in middle Alabama... perhaps around Birmingham, anywhere down to about the Montgomery area (northside being Pratville, soutside being around the general area of Evergreen, even over to Andalusia).

Thanks!
Kyle

"Good choice there, Kyle!", he smilingly sez as he points to his avatar!

Jim posted these in an earlier thread, but are worthy of repeating.


http://southern.railfan.net/paper/sr_paper.html

and of course the home site of the above:

http://southern.railfan.net/

 

[UP2CSX]

Kyle,
CJ, correct me if I'm wrong but the Southern never went anywhere near Montgomery. The closest it got was Selma. The L&N and GM&O were the two major lines that served the Montgomery area, including Prattville, and the L&N was the only railroad that went through Evergreen. The Southern took a more westerly route from Birmingham to Anniston, then south through Selma and ultimately met up with the L&N at Mobile. I wouldn't discourage you from trying to model the Southern because I thin it's a fine railroad but, given the area you want to model, the GM&O and L&N are the two railroads you should be looking at.

 

[Cjcrescent]

Kyle,
CJ, correct me if I'm wrong but the Southern never went anywhere near Montgomery. The closest it got was Selma. The L&N and GM&O were the two major lines that served the Montgomery area, including Prattville, and the L&N was the only railroad that went through Evergreen. The Southern took a more westerly route from Birmingham to Anniston, then south through Selma and ultimately met up with the L&N at Mobile. I wouldn't discourage you from trying to model the Southern because I thin it's a fine railroad but, given the area you want to model, the GM&O and L&N are the two railroads you should be looking at.

Jim;

OK you're corrected, LOL!

The Southern actually did serve Mgm, within the past 20yrs or so, from Union Springs, Troy, on in to Ga on a branchline. This line was embargoed when Southern acquired the old GM&O main from Maplesville down to the paper mill at Autauga Creek in Prattville, (Family Lines/CSX got the old GM&O to the paper mill from Mgm.) Several of us in 1988 visited a modeler in Troy and the line was active at least until then.

Southern/NS sorta stills serves Mgm via the Autauga Branch as its called now. The interchange is at Autauga Creek. The embargoed branchline eastward is now gone but I couldn't tell you when it was tore up.

Southern going south outta B'ham, goes to Bessemer, where it splits into the NOLA main and the Mobile main. The Mobile main is the one that went thru my hometown of Selma. (Yea for my town!) The L&N served Selma, but not how you would think. All of the "Selma trains", on the L&N came up from Flomaton, Al. via a branch from there or from Meridian, Ms. The rails that directly connect Selma, and Mgm was the Western Railway of Al/Georgia RR. L&N had trackage rights west of Selma to at least Meridian, but not to Montgomery. The rails westward now belong to the Meridian and Bigbee. I don't know if CSX gave up the line to Montgomery as well to the M&B. I do know I never saw an L&N train on those WofA/GA rails between Selma and Mgm.

While growing up there, I did see a lot of old, & dirty L&N F's pulling short trains with that shorty bay window caboose on the rear, into and out of Selma. But compared to the Southern's class, traffic, engine variety, the other RR's there were nuttin'! The L&N did have one "advantage". They had an old turntable that they used up until the Family Lines era, when it was removed. Always wanted to photograph it but never did.

 

[UP2CSX]

CJ, I understand about the railroad situation today but I was answering Kyle about the 1940's-1950's. During that time period, the Southern never got to Montgomery and it was the GM&O that had the Maplesville branch through Prattville. As far as I can tell from maps, the L&N was the only railroad going south from Montgomery to Evergreen and on to Mobile. Is this about right, given the time period?

 

[Cjcrescent]

CJ, ... Is this about right, given the time period?

Pretty much Jim. That branchline from Ga. is one I never really paid much attention too. I really don't know if that line was Southern's via an acquistion, or simply a trackage rights agreement. On family visits to LA, (Lower Alabama), we always saw freight cars at the different small industries down that line, but I never saw a moving train, and I only saw a loco on it once, and it wasn't running. Either way, the SRR did have a presence in Mgm, albeit an extremely minor one, when ever the time was.

The GM&O "branchline" from Maplesville wasn't a branch at all. It was the main from Mgm to Tuscaloosa and points NW. GM&O had a substantive yard there, near, next, close to Bell St, IIRC. The line was scrapped from Maplesville to Tuscaloosa, but the SRR purchased the line from there to Autauga Creek.
I need to locate some of my old 35mm RR pix. I was able to take some pictures of the old GM&O station in Maplesville shortly before it was demolished.

I still have cousins that live in Centreville, almost right next to the old Belcher Lumber Co, which is also where the GM&O crossed the Cahaba, (or Cahawba) River. Many a time while visiting them, a GM&O train from Mgm to Tuscaloosa, (or the other way too,) would come by, with 5-6 (RED!) Rs-3's on the front! What a sight!

This has piqued my interest now! Let me see if I can find some information detailing what the arrangement was, trackage rights or outright ownership.

Update!!!

Found out that the line was a branch, but a branch of the CofG! Since SRR didn't acquire the CofG until 1963 or so, Mgm wasn't served by the SRR until then. So you're correct for that time period Jim! Good call!

 

[UP2CSX]

CJ, I'm so used to that line to Maplesville being a branch that I forget it was once the GM&O mainline. We have a bridge going across Main Street that still has the GM&O logo in it and the logos are in very good shape. I have to stop one day and see if I can tell what they are made of.

The GM&O station is still standing here in Prattville. It's in pretty good shape and is being used by a woodworking company now. The local historical society is trying to come up with a way to preserve it and make it into a mudeum but, as usual, we have no money to do such things. It's a classic Jim Crow station with separate waiting rooms and toilets for whites and blacks.

The former GM&O yard is on Bell St. but it's a shadow of its former self. The CSX uses the few remaining tracks mostly for storage and staging for Montgomery Yard.

That must have been quite a sight when the GM&O was still running with all the old ALCO power.

I thought from reading maps that the Southern never got into Montgomery except by that C of G branch and then sometime in the 60's. Seems odd that the Southern never did get trackage into Montgomery but I guess the L&N had them pretty well locked out of a line to Mobile and that's where the money was to be made. Thanks for checking all this out since I know practically nothing about Alabama railroads except for the few books I've read on what appears on-line.

 

[PNKFLOYD]

Kyle- You have gotten some excellant information by a couple of knowledgeable gentlemen. (Gentleman is used loosely for Carey )

Here is another site - Birminham Rails - that you may find interesting.
http://www.bhamrails.info/
Carey recommended it to me a couple years ago and I revisit periodically.

There were several company railroads like U.S. Steel (now CSX corp.) and Woodward Iron that operated in B'ham. Birmingham Southern is the short line still in operation in B'ham and at the CSX Fairfield Works.
see some of GRANDMAN's posts on the mines and his trips around the Birmingham are.