4' x 24' layout with 18" curves - am I nuts?


tdipaul

Member
Hello All!

I have moved in the past year and now, after a 3 year break, have a nice size basement to place a new, larger layout right in the middle of here:



My specs are as follows
  • 4x24 footprint max using (3) sheets of 4x8 plywood with EPS sheets on top
    • 4'x4' on the ends
    • 2'x'16' in the middle section (achieved by ripping a 4x8 in two)
  • Island style, not against the wall
  • focus on mainline running and minimal switching (maximum of 4 turnouts, all manually operated),
  • two quality "B" type DCC/sound loco's
    • after trying all brands on my other layouts I believe Atlas Gold with Loksound is #1 (unless something new/better is out there now?)
  • 2 structures max
  • short covered hoppers for the Walthers grain elevator building
  • Lots of trees and scenery on the ends
  • 1 siding for extra hoppers
  • 1 siding to store an engine
After playing with the track configurator it appears to me the only way to meet these specs is by employing 18"radius curves and (2) curved turnouts as 22's put the track too close to the edges.



Will I be disappointed with the operating characteristics of this design?

Will these operate without trouble on 18's?



 
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A: I think you will be dissapointed, roundy rounds get very boring, very quickly, and why not incorporate a grain mill as a receiver. Put the elevator inside 1 end and the receiver at the other.

B: Put some triangles into those inner corners and you'll be able to create longer transitions into those end curves even if you still keep 18" radius at the ends, i.e. make it an egg shape. Sidings can originate from the sides of the loops on the bottom side and run along there. Easier access

C: Those locos and hoppers will operate on 18", but will be more comfortable on 22" and look better.

Remember. These are only suggestions.
 
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I see you're a Rutland guy. Welcome to the club. In my research, the Rutland wasn't as twisty, turny through the mountains (except for the corkscrew division) as I originally thought. So in that respect, you aren't far off. The RS-1s and 3s are good for 18 inch turns. However, if you want to backdate some into the steam era, you're going to want bigger curves. You might also want to consider more switches into businesses. The Rutland served marble, milk, agriculture and light industry later on. Earlier, they had passenger service.
 
* focus on mainline running and minimal switching (maximum of 4 turnouts, all manually operated),
* two quality "B" type DCC/sound loco's
... Will I be disappointed with the operating characteristics of this design?
I think so because there is hardly any operating characteristic here. Basically one can run one train at a time around the loop while the other waits on the single siding, or one can run two trains in the same direction around the loop. The most exciting operational feature would be an overtake of the slow train by the faster one. Maybe one train could switch the grain elevator while the other looped, but I doubt it since there is no internal run around.

At a minimum, I would add a second passing siding so you could at least run two trains opposite directions simultaneously.

After playing with the track configurator it appears to me the only way to meet these specs is by employing 18"radius curves and (2) curved turnouts as 22's put the track too close to the edges.
If you think that is too close, but this is the exact situation of why 22" radius are made. The biggest possible radius on a 4x8 sheet of plywood. OR if you really think that is too close you could add a 1" strip of wood to the 4' section. There are many other options. You could use flex track and make 19, 20, or 21, or even 20.75" radius. You could make an easement by starting the curve with a 24" then go to 22" then finish the curve with the 18".
 
I agree with the former comments. I would not go with anything less that a 5 foot square on each end and either 30 inches or 3 foot width for the center portion. Any less and you will lament later on. With 5 feet you could even get up to a 26 radius - better for most everything.
 
There is plenty of room between the poles & the wall. Why not have the layout go "around the walls" as it were. Just be sure to have a lift/up drop/down bridge so you don't wreck your back doing duck unders.
 
In stead of the square corners in the cutout area, why not angle the corners to give you a little more room for the return loops and make the s-curves a little less tight?. You might also go to 20" radius Shinohara sectional track, to give you a little more easy curves without getting too close to the edges. A combination of 18 and 20"R sectional track can also cut problems with rolling stock coming out of the curves.
 
If flextrack is used vs snap track, it will give natural easements between curves & tangents (straits). That way there are not "jolt" between curves & tangents.
 
Thanks for the suggestions everyone

revised some things...
  • Moved the open area to the middle (less scenery to fab)
  • Changed the curves to 22"s to open it up for small steam (jic)
  • Added a passing track
  • Added a ladder so an engine can operate independently of the main
  • Added 2 more structures for recieving and accepting
  • Added a team track
what do you think?

 
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You could also run a backdrop down the center to have 2 separate scenes. Maybe Industrial on one side, and town on the other. This way the trains don't run through the same scene twice. you can also get away with longer trains.
 
24" is a very narrow space for 2 'full sized' adults to pass each other, should they ever need to. I'd keep the tables 4'wide, and put a scenic divider down the middle, which would also give you more room for scenery, or trees, and more trees, if you don't want to try anything else. As I recall, southern Vermont also has a number of farms, which you could model with some grass mats, and cows. A grade crossing or two would also add some scenic interest. How about a lumber mill, or distributor business?
 
great points fella's the open area will be removed!

I can envision using 2' tall, 2" thick EPS foam pieces for the divider

with one side being an industrial section and the other being a winding scenic section

I love this planning stage of a build!
 
22's are much better. Yoiur RS-1 will handle them nicely. Stick with short cars, 40 ft boxes, hoppers, 42 ft. flats, etc. No six axle diesels, and nothing larger than a 2-8-0 if steam (well, maybe a small 2-8-2). I agree with incorporating some sort of operation, unless you just want to watch them roll. Before you build read "Realsistc Model Railroad Operation" by Tony Koester.
 
I would go from 22" radius like Espeefan also pointed out, if you could manage another foot or so on the ends. This will allow a wider range of equipment to operate and look better when rounding the curves. The 24 foot length of the backside is long section of real estate that could allow for a backdrop and some background industries and structures? This will add interest to the layout and maybe add a couple of spurs for the industries?

Thanks.

Greg
 
Looking better, but I would still make it 5 feet wide plus make those straight tracks "snakey" curvey!
 



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