Inflation?


Well I don't think anyone has ever become a supplier to this hobby out of greed. Second, there has been a host of economic changes responsible for today's prices both on the supply and demand side. A smaller group of enthusiasts that demand higher quality and fidelity than the larger numbers that were once happy with more toy-like less sophisticated offerings. The one great thing about this hobby is that you can keep enjoying what you have. There really isn't no need for an established model railroader to buy new. That's not to say no desire to. Also, there is a very large second hand market both online and at swap meets. I think one can enjoy this hobby with most any budget.
 
Take your $25 model, add $50 of detail parts as mentioned above, add another $25 in electronics and lighting. Now, you're at $100 for a blue box engine. Now, how much do you think you would have to pay a complete stranger that doesn't even like model trains to assemble it? Let's say it takes 2 hours to completely wire and detail it--and that's a very low time estimate. Now, pay somebody else that also doesn't like trains to paint it, plus the cost of the paint and equipment to paint it. Then add another $100 for a sound decoder and speaker, if you want that.
Then double that amount to pay for advertising, shipping costs, at least an office to rent somewhere to sell the engine out of, and enough profit to stay in business.
Suddenly that $200 SW1200RS seems like a bargain.
 
I agree with you completely that the stuff today is overpriced. I see folks trying to justify what there is no justification for but it is what it is. If you want the items, you have to figure out how to pay for them because now that "they" know what people will pay, it's not going to go down.
 
"Overpriced" = "More than I think it's worth....to me." Or "Greedy sonofab…!"

"Good price" = "About what I'm willing to pay because I think it's worth that much...to me." Or, "Gee, what a nice guy to price it so I can afford it."

"Undervalued" = "I would seriously have paid another $20 to get this." Or, "Dumbass. I should buy two."

In case it isn't obvious, every one of us has been in all three scenarios.

"The people gladly believe what they wish to." -Julius Caesar

"Belief is always convenient." -Selector
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm new here and the last thing I'd want to suggest is that folks here don't have common sense. However, if you look at society in general and the younger generations in particular, good old fashioned common sense seems to be in short supply. I don't know what happened to it but somewhere along the line, it stopped being taught. In a sense, those of us who have it and realize when an asking price for something is downright ridiculous are paying for the people who don't have it and are more than willing to pay ridiculous amounts of money for things. Case in point, the 1500 dollar smartphone. I have nothing to base this on but I'd wager that most people, say 35 and older, are not going to shell out that kind of money for a smartphone.
 
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You're confusing varieties and variables. I don't own a $2000 brass Y6b because I can't justify the expense. You don't own a $1500 smart phone for the same reason. The not-so-sensible kids of today make the same market choices using the same logic. Some of us own $60K pickup trucks and drive them, as the sole occupant, 30 miles to and from our desk jobs, and park them on weekends, while others wont buy new anything; they buy used. As it is, I felt my $700 S7 Edge was worth the expense because it has the features I want in a smart phone. Those who spend $5000 on limited edition smart phones are almost certainly at or above 35 years of age. How they got to be in that position is the stuff of stories.

This hobby owes us as much as the world does....nada....zip....zilch...zero. Just like at the high roller tables at casinos, if ye canna pay, ye canna play. There's a table for the ordinary folk down the hall.
 
Take your $25 model, add $50 of detail parts as mentioned above, add another $25 in electronics and lighting. Now, you're at $100 for a blue box engine. Now, how much do you think you would have to pay a complete stranger that doesn't even like model trains to assemble it? Let's say it takes 2 hours to completely wire and detail it--and that's a very low time estimate. Now, pay somebody else that also doesn't like trains to paint it, plus the cost of the paint and equipment to paint it. Then add another $100 for a sound decoder and speaker, if you want that.
Then double that amount to pay for advertising, shipping costs, at least an office to rent somewhere to sell the engine out of, and enough profit to stay in business.
Suddenly that $200 SW1200RS seems like a bargain.

Great job of rationalizing swallowing the Pablum, hook, line and sinker; or, lock, stock and barrel, your choice! The problem with your scenario is that it wasn't that long ago that locomotive kits where just $20.00-$40.00. It's my opinion that nothing can justify a jump from $20.00-$40.00 to $225.00 in such a short amount of time! I'm a MODEL railroader, not a spend it all as fast as you can, miniature train affectionado and I like to build models, not simply buy them! So, Suddenly that $225.00 SW1200 will never-ever seem like any type of BARGAIN!
 
The problem with your scenario is that it wasn't that long ago that locomotive kits where just $20.00-$40.00.
That was a really long time ago, last century if I remember correctly. One issue that I have is called "fixed income". It's not going up as fast as prices for model railroad stuff. Even Accurail kits that I used to pay under $10 for are now $15.
Another thing to consider is labor costs. They have gone up considerably in the good old USA. They may be a lot lower overseas, but that ain't a cheap boat ride across the Pacific.
 
Willie hit on an important item there, cost of labor.
As the minimum wage increases exponentially, I'm sure the owners of stores and manufacturers will be happy to pay that additional expense out of their pocket until the businesses fail. On the other hand of reality, the price of goods at the store will increase really fast until the cost of labor to product comes back into balance as it has in the past. Those who are retired and living on fixed income won't be getting that 100% increase in their monthly checks and will have to make ends meet by tightening the belt. In the mean time, those who have never wanted to invest in themselves to make themselves worth a higher paycheck will be much closer to a comfortable lifestyle without doing anything different.
 
There was a time when Athearn Blue Box engines were expensive in relation to my income. Each LHS offered them either at full markup or greater if the particular model was a hot seller. Same with AHM, Mantua, Bowser steam etc. Model railroading, is a hobby, paid out of disposable income, rather than a necessity.

I no longer buy a many new products, and when I do, I limit myself to one of a kind, rather than two or more. I judge whether I'm willing to pay the discounted asking price or not, and pass on most "new" products.

Are the newer products worth their price? The answer to that is if the product performs as expected, yes, if not, then no. I'm not interested in what it costs the manufacturer to bring the product to market, that's not my problem. The buyer is in control here, if one considers the product's price point out of line, don't buy it. No where is it written that you are obligated to purchase every offering that comes out.

Boris
 
You're confusing varieties and variables. I don't own a $2000 brass Y6b because I can't justify the expense. You don't own a $1500 smart phone for the same reason. The not-so-sensible kids of today make the same market choices using the same logic. Some of us own $60K pickup trucks and drive them, as the sole occupant, 30 miles to and from our desk jobs, and park them on weekends, while others wont buy new anything; they buy used. As it is, I felt my $700 S7 Edge was worth the expense because it has the features I want in a smart phone. Those who spend $5000 on limited edition smart phones are almost certainly at or above 35 years of age. How they got to be in that position is the stuff of stories.

This hobby owes us as much as the world does....nada....zip....zilch...zero. Just like at the high roller tables at casinos, if ye canna pay, ye canna play. There's a table for the ordinary folk down the hall.
I'm not talking about limited editions. That's a completely different thing with different motivations. Common sense tells one that there is no way it cost anywhere near 1500 dollars to produce said smartphone. Maybe way back when, R&D cost that, but that's long since paid for. The profit margin on that phone has to be huge. Unfortunately, certain people are willing to pay that for one so everyone who wants it has to pay that for it. If more people stood up and said, "Sorry, I'm not going to pay that" for whatever item, then the price goes down or the company that makes the item doesn't survive. That is finally happening in the smart phone market. People are holding on to older phones longer, mainly because the price of new has become so outrageous. It had to reach a tipping point though.
Model Railroading is a niche market, the prices are naturally going to be proportionately higher than in a larger higher volume market but in the end the same principles apply to everything. Companies aren't stupid. Why would I continue to charge a buck for a cup of coffee when I know there are people out there willing to pay 5 bucks for a cup of coffee? Unfortunately, we are all way too easily manipulated and conditioned. A lot of us think two dollars for a gallon of gas is a bargain. When I was kid, gas cost 40 cents a gallon. Yes, things go up in time but the price increase is rarely ever proportionate. It's called greed.

P.S. In this day and age I'd call $700 for a nice smartphone about reasonable. Over twice that is ridiculous.
 
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Great job of rationalizing swallowing the Pablum, hook, line and sinker; or, lock, stock and barrel, your choice! The problem with your scenario is that it wasn't that long ago that locomotive kits where just $20.00-$40.00. It's my opinion that nothing can justify a jump from $20.00-$40.00 to $225.00 in such a short amount of time! I'm a MODEL railroader, not a spend it all as fast as you can, miniature train affectionado and I like to build models, not simply buy them! So, Suddenly that $225.00 SW1200 will never-ever seem like any type of BARGAIN!
Okay, tell me how much you think you could get an accurate, museum-quality model locomotive built for. By someone other than yourself. How much do you think you would have to pay a person to build and paint that switch engine?
 
...and make a living with the profits from maybe 1200 units sold? What would you say a decent profit should be per item shipped from China?
 
Even with practice, how long does it take to install a DCC with sound decoder in a model steam locomotive? I'm getting better and faster at it, and it still takes about six or eight hours. At even minimum wage, what does that amount to? Then there is the cost of the basic piece of rolling stock. Frankly, I can remember when a dollar was worth a dime! :eek:
 
The federal minimum wage has not gone up since July 19, 2009

I think greed and selfishness has become pandemic.
 
Okay, tell me how much you think you could get an accurate, museum-quality model locomotive built for. By someone other than yourself. How much do you think you would have to pay a person to build and paint that switch engine?

What's the point? Nothing said; or, done here, will change the fact that we are and will be paying too high of prices for Model Railroad Locomotives! My opinion!

How did we get from someone complaining about how high prices are, to my needing to design, tool-up and have a company where my employees manufacture Museum-Quality model locomotives? I guess those of you who can afford and do not think the prices are out of line, have a lack of understanding of those who feel that the prices are too high.

Terry, can we leave this at our disagreeing on the direction this hobby is headed?
 



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