Do you use DCC? [Archive] - ModelRailroadForums.com

modelbob

01-14-2005, 04:54 PM

DCC is one of the most important new technologies in model railroading for quite some time. It can literally change the way you run your model railroad, allowing features and options that weren't available.

Pretty much everyone agrees it's a great technology. There are also some major drawbacks, such as the cost and effort involved in retro-fitting an existing layout and fleet of rolling stock.

I'm curious to know whether you use or are planning to use DCC on your model railroad.

JeffShultz

01-14-2005, 05:03 PM

Not currently, but I am planning to. Just need to save my pennies....(and larger change).

I really haven't decided what system to go with, either.

CBCNSfan

01-14-2005, 06:22 PM

Conventional for now, at least while I'm in the building stage. My buget is aimed at scenery and upgrading locos and rolling stock to be somewhat protypical looking and better running.

Cheers Willis

leghome

01-14-2005, 09:53 PM

Just bought a used Digitrax Big Boy system from someone on this list. Thank you Bill K. I am in the process of getting it set up and I really like it so far. I have run a digitrax system at a friends layout and that is why I am in the process of switching.

abcraghead

01-16-2005, 12:08 AM

Atlas Master system for over two years. Would never go back to conventional.

Jeff: I recommend the Lenz entry level set. If you are going to get a handheld throttle, it's not worth getting the Atlas system since it's about the same price, but more limited in features. If you don't mind just once controller though, the Atlas system is a robust Lenz based design, and is extremely affordable, making it a bargain entry into DCC controls.

JeffShultz

01-16-2005, 01:22 AM

A handheld is definitely one of the requirements - I've been spoiled by Joe Fugate's EasyDCC system. But I don't need something that complex.

I keep drooling over Digitrax Zephyr and Prodigy Advance systems...

abcraghead

01-16-2005, 04:30 PM

Use the Digitrax before you buy it. Some people love it, some hate it, don't buy it before you know which of those two you are. Heh.

Easy DCC is okay, but yes, I think it's a bit too much. As for Prodigy, I'm not big on anything that MRC does in DCC, it's always a price-point driven market for them, so it always feels a bit less than it should. (An acquaintance of mine up here just dumped his Prodigy for Easy DCC.)

up_santafe

02-06-2005, 11:42 PM

I got back into the hobby a couple years ago after being out if it for about 40 years. (When I was a kid).

I got a MRC Command 2000 and though it has few features, it works great for me at present. However, I am planning to upgrade to sound and will likely switch to a Digitrax system.

Chris UK

02-07-2005, 09:28 AM

JeffShultz

02-09-2005, 04:25 AM

Well, I've gone DCC... at <$100 including shipping, a Prodigy DCC system just seemed like the ticket.

It works, and my Atlas GP38 has never run so slowly.... it's really nice!

And it has few enough features that I'm not spending more time programming my loco than running it.

B_Kosanda

02-09-2005, 12:01 PM

Just upgraded from wired handheld throttles to wireless throttles. It makes a nice difference not to drag that cord around the layout room.

Bill

emt49

02-11-2005, 12:21 AM

i use the mrc command 2000 system it workes fine for me it just runs my motive power. all my switches are manual throws

elythomaslumber

02-23-2005, 01:02 PM

I've just add a second system to my old one. I had a simple multi protocol system which can handle DCC, the Maerklin "Motorola I and II" data format and DC (really DC on the track, but not at the same time in digital mode).

Now I've the LENZ Set 100 system and I'm totally satisfied. I've a lot of sound decoders in operation, most from BLI (Quantum) and they need up to 12 functions. Also I love multi traction with 3-5 locomotives, all with sound for shure!!!

In Germany a new system is now on the market. It's called "MFX" and will be delivered by Maerklin. When you drop the locomotive to the track, the decoder send back all informations about itself (Real Name and parameters). So it's an easy to use and very comfortable system. It's also compatible to the old Maerklin data format.

I expect a similar system from TRIX which will be compatible to DCC (MFX and DCC format).

Also we've here a data format called SELECTRIX. Most advantage are the very small decoders, so they are the best choice for n-track. Also this system is very stable. But finally TRIX stops this system this year and changed in a first step to DCC. So only some minor companies go on with SELECTRIX.

Hartmut

Kitbash

02-23-2005, 09:55 PM

DCC Super Empire Builder... Digitrax. (HO Layout)

Slowly converting my motive power to decoders. Have done about 10 out of 30 so far. Now I am trying to mix in some onboard sound. Recently purchased an HO GP9, LifeLike Proto 2000 w/ the Quantam sound/mobile decoder. It is spoiling me.

Red Oak & Western

03-08-2005, 04:04 AM

My son gave me a Lenz System 100 for Christmas 2003 (guess that dates ME!). Converting the fleet has been a slow process, but for the simplicity in wiring the layout, it's definitely worth it. Not to mention the ability to have two trains running in the same block. I wouldn't go back to DC for anything.

grumpybob

03-08-2005, 01:44 PM

I have been DCC for a couple of years. Starting with the Atlas system and changing over to NCE. Originally was Dynatrol, so the conversion was more of changing the decoders as the system was already wired. On a switching layout as I have the number of engines in one area makes this an easy choice.

leghome

03-08-2005, 09:02 PM

Finally bought myself a new Digitrax Super Empire Builder with a DT400 walkaround. WOW!!!!!!! this is like driving a Cadillac after runing around in a Vega.

Keith 55

03-12-2005, 07:27 AM

Wow, I guess I'm the only pure DC guy around.
I don't envision myself building "the" layout within the next year, so the decision on DC/DCC isn't important yet, but I feel like DC will be plenty versatile enough for me.
(I should mention that I'm cheap.)
Have seen some DCC/sound-equipped N scale steamers running, and they were almost sweet enough for me to change eras, if it weren't for the lack of subwoofer-specific frequencies.
To sum up: Maybe
(I have a heart full of neutrality)

KenKzak

03-13-2005, 09:17 PM

I still don't expect to go over to DCC any time soon. None of my current locos are DCC ready [Nscale] and money is way too tight.

I am wireing my layout for dual throttles though not on the same loop [of multiple blocks] at the same time. This reduces the amount of wireing, compared to full multi-throttle block control, but it still requires a LOT of wires soldered to a lot of toggle switch terminals...
I can see where I could convert all or part to DCC at a later date.

Old 97

04-08-2005, 09:54 PM

Wow, I guess I'm the only pure DC guy around.

I'm with ya keith55! :D
My New York & Western RR is all DC.
I like the benefits of DCC, but right now DC fits my needs. :cool:

chrismoore93

04-13-2005, 12:59 AM

Bob,
I'm doing about the same thing as Jeff (saving money). While I'm still creating my layout, I plan to use DCC( after my layouts done and I have a sufficent amount of locomotives.) Whats the average price for one?
Thanks,
Chris Moore

grumpybob

04-13-2005, 05:09 PM

Chris,

The prices for DCC systems range anywhere from a low of 150 to 500. It really depends upon how much you want to run. MRC probably makes the best low end system and can be added to fairly resonably.

Grumpybob

BoneValleyALCo

04-30-2005, 02:59 PM

My trains all have traction motors, either DC or AC. Running 1:1 scale trains sure make a difference. :D

railspike

05-01-2005, 01:52 PM

DC for me, have to install dcc decoders, etc, that will be a bit to steep in cost.
The way I have my layout setup for dc only and many blocks, i have to work it which to me is more fun. I may consider dcc if I totally rebuild my layout.

NHGuy

05-14-2005, 06:42 AM

I have been a NCE user since 1999. Love it! There are 3 in my operations group that use NCE and we have a blast. The others use EasyDCC and RailCommand. One still uses DC and won't change. You can't please everybody. To him it's a cost thing and I can't blame him as he has a large layout.

Bill S.

calflash

05-15-2005, 11:37 AM

Using DCC on new layout - first time user.

Chris UK

06-10-2005, 09:46 AM

Seriously considering the Lenz 100 system with an adittional LH100 handheld to operate the fiddle yard. Anticipated cost of £244 plus £54 plus cost of £28 per decoder. Fortunately I only have a current fleet of 11 so the decoder costs are not too high. I am looking to then install sound to get the best option. I have been told to spend the maximum on the initial system which will then stay in date for a long time. The Lenz system is upgradable via your local hobby shop.
Regards

Curtis

07-23-2005, 10:16 PM

I run a Lenz LH100 DCC system with a handheld and laptop which makes the programming a breeze. I can also control 6 locos at a time as well as all my programmed turnouts with the laptop and mouse without having to do a bunch of fiddling with the handheld. I also have the freedom to run the trains and play in the switching yard at the same time or let the Nephews run a train with the handheld while I keep control on the laptop.

jbaakko

07-23-2005, 10:22 PM

I'm going with NCE walkaround on my diorama I'm building, and will also use NCE on my layout whenever i can start working on it! My dad's layout, however, I think I'm going to use an MRC or Digitrax system, that one doesn't have to be to complecated considering it will run an average of 3 diesels and 3 steam locomotives. Its gonna be a tid bit of work, to get my dad set up and running, but...

grumpybob

07-25-2005, 02:19 PM

Curtis,

What Software are you using on the laptop?

Red Oak & Western

07-26-2005, 03:07 AM

I use JMRI.

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/

Kevin

Curtis

08-15-2005, 03:58 AM

Hi grumpybob,

I'm using a program that I found on the Lenz.com web site called ZugDCC. It is one of the lesser expensive programs recommended on the site and so far I've had good luck with it. The link to their site is www.zugdcc.com.

Here is the description from the Lenz web site:

ZugDCC is an all-new shareware program designed for XpressNet. It was designed from day one to be easy to use with all the features you really want. ZugDCC features an easy to use tab style screen for each section. 8 online screen throttles, each support F0 through F12. A locomotive database for easy selection, and the easiest MU setup you'll ever find! Accessory decoders can be controlled directly, by a click-able turnout map, or by routing.

All programming modes are supported. Values can be entered and displayed in decimal, hexadecimal and binary. Also included is a scale and metric calculator. 9600 and 19200 baud supported.

Let me know if you have any questions,
Curtis

NWR #200

08-15-2005, 08:46 AM

Does anybody know of any Sound decoders other than those made by Sound Traxx?

grumpybob

08-15-2005, 04:28 PM

MRC makes a low end sound decoder. :o It will do in a pinch, too general of a sound, and they don't seem to have a good shelf life. Digitrax I understand is coming out with one. I was just on Tony's train exchange and he appears to be having a sale on Soundtraxx decoders. :D

grumpybob

08-15-2005, 04:30 PM

thanks Curtis,

Unfortunately NCE does not use the ExpressNet system, so i don't think the Lenz system would work.

NWR #200

08-15-2005, 10:15 PM

I just stopped by Tony's Xchange too. $87 for a $139 decoder. Not to shabby. Now if I only had a locomotive to put it in. I have the money for a sound system and locomotive but am not sure if I can depart with my green yet. Plus, I need a layout and DCC :rolleyes:

HaggisKennedy

08-16-2005, 05:39 PM

Digitrax is coming out with one, and Loksound already has a line out there. Also, QSI appears to be offering theirs through a third-party company "Sounds Like Trains". That company will do the distributing to retail outlets. Don't know if they're going to sell direct....

Kennedy

Russian

09-20-2005, 02:44 AM

Not interested in DCC, primary because of the costs involved. But it would be nice to have in the future... Next century maybe, when I retire.:p

SpaceMouse

10-03-2005, 08:09 PM

No comparison. With DC I ran one train on my 4x8 layout. Now I often run 5 trains. My son likes that. He runs one and I run the other 4. Keeps me hopping because he like to stop frequently and allow his passengers to see the sights.

scubaterry

10-03-2005, 08:21 PM

I started out a newbie about four years ago with a Digitrax Super Chief and I could not be happier.
Terry

grande man

10-04-2005, 01:02 AM

I started out a newbie about four years ago with a Digitrax Super Chief and I could not be happier.
Terry

Talk about doing it right the first time. Smart move, Terry. :)

jdavid93225

10-04-2005, 02:34 AM

dthurman

10-04-2005, 04:30 AM

I'm currently running DCC and am in the process of converting my locomotive fleet to DCC also, so I guess I'd fit into the "currently upgrading" category. I have several DCC equipped locomotives and a few that I have already converted. I still have quite a few to do, though. FWIW, I went with the MRC Prodigy Advance and am very pleased with it. It offered the features I wanted at the most reasonable price I could find. For the features I was looking for, it would have cost quite a bit more to go with another brand.

I hope to someday, being in N scale, and with the amount of available space in the shells, I am looking at having to mill them or buy the milled frames, I can see the advantage though.

I am thinking about the MRC myself, the new one they have the Express or something that's the little cousin to the Prodigy looks interesting, as long as I can update to the Prodigy series down the road.

jfugate

10-04-2005, 05:01 AM

If you are thinking of getting into DCC and you want to "do it right" -- meaning you want to buy a system that can grow with you as your layout grows, and your understanding of DCC grows, then IMO, do not buy Atlas, MRC, or Bachman.

These three systems have one serious oversight in common: no computer interface.

Most modelers don't realize why a computer interface is important on a DCC system ... after all, they don't intend to computerize their layout. And you are right.

So what's the big deal with a computer interface on a DCC system?

Put in simple terms, a computer interface on a DCC system allows you to program decoders using a few simple clicks of a mouse on your PC. You don't even need to know or care what a CV is, or what bit values are. Tuning your loco performance with speed curves takes only a few mouse clicks.

You can save your loco decoder settings and reload them if you ever need to with only a few mouse clicks. And finally, if you get the same or similar decoder in other locos, you can copy the settings from the other decoder in seconds and load the new decoder literally in seconds.

This is all done using the powerful and free DecoderPro software.

Believe me, once you've programmed decoders with your PC and DecoderPro, you never want to program CV's and bit values by hand any more.

If you want to avoid decoder programming headaches, a computer interface on your DCC system is *vital* in my opinion.

dthurman

10-04-2005, 05:11 AM

Good points Joe. Do most of the other systems when it comes to the computer, hook up with a USB port or a serial? I use all Mac's here so as you know, they only come with USB or Firewire. I don't know if the USB to serial port adapters will work. I know they make a Mac version of the DecoderPro so I am imagining a Mac would work?

Also I could see tying the computer in more with the MR as time goes along.

jfugate

10-04-2005, 05:30 AM

dthurman

10-04-2005, 05:36 AM

David:

Most systems use a serial port, so you would need a USB to serial adapter. I know they have them for the PC ... don't know about Macs.

Also, I believe the Lenz system has announced a direct USB computer interface, and I've also heard the new NCE starter system, the PowerCab, will have a USB computer interface. See: http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/2005/071905b.htm

Thanks Joe, I guess I will have to start researching the NCE stuff and see what they have for pricing. I am lucky as I only have about 12 engines at the moment, probably smart to do it while I am still on the low end of prime movers ;)

One more "dumb" question from me, can you just have one throttle but yet run more then 1 train?

jfugate

10-04-2005, 06:10 AM

Digitrax lets you switch between multiple locos with one button, but overall I find the Digitrax systems to be less user friendly than the other systems.

I measure user friendly by how close you need to keep the manual in case you need to do something you don't do every day. If I can figure out how to at least get started at something just by looking at the throttle, then it gets high marks in user friendliness.

NCE does user friendly better than most other systems, I think, with EasyDCC a close second. Then comes Lenz, and Digitrax brings up the rear in the user friendly department. However, to be fair, Digitrax has made good strides in the last year or two ... with the user friendly nature of their systems far better than it used to be. I still rank them behind NCE and EasyDCC, however.

jfugate

10-04-2005, 06:12 AM

Oh yes, and to answer your question about running multiple trains with one throttle ... yes it's possible. You just change the loco address on the throttle. However it's not instant, so if an emergency was to occur with the other train, you probably couldn't switch trains fast enough to stop it.

NZRMac

10-04-2005, 09:41 AM

Lenz Set 100 and LH 90 handheld throttle for me! Love them, really easy to use, don't have to release a loco when your finished, just grab another address and go.

Cheapest cordless throttle on the market, cordless home phone, with an adaptor plugged into XpressNet.

Awesome system highly recommend it.

Ken. :)

grande man

10-04-2005, 02:12 PM

As for Digitrax "user friendliness", when I need quick answers, I just ask LGM. :D

CSX_road_slug

10-04-2005, 02:39 PM

I have a Digitrax Chief controller and I wired my track to be DCC-compatible, but I have to wait indefinitely* until I can afford decoders for all my 30+ locos. So I guess my layout's gonna have to remain in the stone age for awhile...

* - i.e. when I'm finished paying for my kids' educations

rrinker

10-04-2005, 02:46 PM

For inexpensive decoders - look at the NCE D13SRJ. A ten-pack ends up costing less than $12 each. As long as you don't need dozens of flashign ditch lights, they work well in all sorts of locomotives. Silent running and back-emf even! Amazing for the price. They are my fleet decoder of choice when there is no special fitment like a Kato or the Proto2000 that can use the Digitrax DH163L0. But since I model the 50's all I ever have are the headlights. The Reading never went in for all the fancy Mars Lights and so forth.

--Randy

CSX_road_slug

10-04-2005, 02:59 PM

For inexpensive decoders - look at the NCE D13SRJ. A ten-pack ends up costing less than $12 each. As long as you don't need dozens of flashign ditch lights, they work well in all sorts of locomotives.
That might work for me. My era does require ditch lights, but I could specify a select few to be lead units and put the pricier decoders in those only...

rrinker

10-04-2005, 03:08 PM

Well, they DO have 4 outputs, so if all you have are the front and rear lights plus ditch lights, it's actually enough.

--Randy

CSX_road_slug

10-04-2005, 03:50 PM

Well, they DO have 4 outputs, so if all you have are the front and rear lights plus ditch lights, it's actually enough.
COOL! (I still need to wait a few months though...)

rrinker

10-04-2005, 05:20 PM

I suspect you can get them at that price from several vendors - but I KNOW i get them for that price from Tim at Empire Northern: http://www.empirenorthernmodels.com

Just a satisifed customer, have no other connection with them.

--Randy

jfugate

10-14-2005, 06:37 PM

Been using DCC since 1993 on the Siskiyou Line and I used CTC-80 command control prior to that. So I've been using command control of some form since 1990.

I used the Lenz system for 7 years, then wanted wireless (Lenz didn't have it at the time) so I upgraded to EasyDCC -- and am a happy EasyDCC user ever since.

IMO, DCC is *the way* to go if you have a layout of any size, you are interested in realistic operation, and you want to run more than one train at a time.

With fleet decoders available for as little as $12 each as Randy illustrates above, the cost of upgrading your loco fleet should no longer stand in the way. If you could do a $12 upgrade to each of your locos that would dramatically improve their performance, wouldn't you do it?

caellis

10-14-2005, 11:25 PM

Have Lenz 100 with the LH90 & LH100 cabs. Best of both worlds. Knob and push buttons. Installed decoders in all 6 of my HO locomotives (steam & diesel). Still use Tortise with toggle switches on my turnouts.

roundhouse

01-23-2007, 05:44 PM

I am planning to use it on my new layout and Bachmann have just introduced a new system over here in the UK which a friend of mine oozes confidence over. Will probably try that one and upgrade later if I feel I need to. The cost for this system is running at £50 with decoders at about £20. I beleive this equates to about $100 and $40 respectively.

:eek: No matter how cheap, it's no more than what you pay for it... and that ain't saying much. The worst thing about the system is the single digit addressing scheme (1-9). So, you can't identify a loco by its road number - not even the last 2 digits as most entry level systems allow. And if you have more than 9 locos, you'll have to choose the best 9 and forget about the rest.

B_Kosanda

01-24-2007, 12:29 AM

Digitrax lets you switch between multiple locos with one button, but overall I find the Digitrax systems to be less user friendly than the other systems.

The fact that Digitrax allows two locos to be controlled at one time is a big feature of their design. I'm not sure all units will allow this. Certainly if you could find a way to pop locos to/from some kind of stack and control them easily is something Digitrax could improve on. The way I see it, they're going to have to make their radio link with the handheld throttle bi-directional, rather than from throttle to base unit only. Having to connect the throttle to the loconet to gain control of another loco is a big pain in the rear. They already have a method to "recall" previous loco numbers from a stack by pressing one of the control knobs and then rotating through a list. This part is slick. Again, this only works when the throttle is connected to the loconet.

Bill

Alcomotive

02-12-2007, 08:14 PM

Bill or anyone any word on any future updates or revisions of avoiding to have to plug into the throttle all the time?

Alcomotive

02-12-2007, 11:14 PM

I took the liberty of asking this nagging question to TECH support @ digitrax...

I pasted part of the forum discussion to get their attention. Bob hope this is ok?:confused: :o

here is what happened....

At my local forums called www.modelrailroadforums.com

We are having a discussion on DCC products and in particular digitrax

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=852&page=7

Originally Posted by jfugate
Digitrax lets you switch between multiple locos with one button, but overall I find the Digitrax systems to be less user friendly than the other systems.

Originally Posted by B Kosanda
The fact that Digitrax allows two locos to be controlled at one time is a big feature of their design. I'm not sure all units will allow this. Certainly if you could find a way to pop locos to/from some kind of stack and control them easily is something Digitrax could improve on. The way I see it, they're going to have to make their radio link with the handheld throttle bi-directional, rather than from throttle to base unit only. Having to connect the throttle to the loconet to gain control of another loco is a big pain in the rear. They already have a method to "recall" previous loco numbers from a stack by pressing one of the control knobs and then rotating through a list. This part is slick. Again, this only works when the throttle is connected to the loconet.

Originally Posted by Alcomotive (me)
My question is will there be a time that we will not have to plug in to the loconet board or throttle ?????

Thanks
Alcomotive
(James)

Tech Support:

Yes. When? Not sure so cannot give a date at this time, but it is actively being worked on.
Happy Railroading
Digitrax
450 Cemetery Street Suite 206
Norcross, GA 30071
770 441 7992
Fax 770 441 0759
email: techsupport@digitrax.com
WEB: www.digitrax.com

daveb6

02-18-2007, 03:20 AM