Is Horizon trying to become the next Walthers?

[SDP45]

Just looking around at the Horizon website:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/

I had no idea that they had such an extensive offering of model train stuff. Nothing from Walthers though.
Also, all the Athearn stuff is discontinued from the Walthers site.

Comments?

[JeffShultz]

Horizon is a distributor, like Walthers, and like Walthers they have some exclusive lines... although in Walther's case I think they developed them in-house, in Horizon's case they've bought Athearn and MDC/Roundhouse, and negotiated an agreement with Intermountain.

While I've heard some negative things about Horizon's dealer policies, is it really healthy to have a single 800lbs gorilla running things?

[RCH]

Walthers did not develop their line in-house, well, at least not all of it. They did have their own line of craftsman kits, but they were pretty crude. It was when they acquired Train Miniature they got the majority of their freight car base covered. They also acquired the American GK E60CP and E60CF locomotives, which were folded into their own line for a short time. Since then they've developed their own freight and passenger car line.

Horizon is doing the same thing Walthers did, only they're about 25 years behind. And Horizon has done it with well-known and respected brands, which seems to have brought on a storm of hostility toward them. Horizon's policies are intended to protect the storefront dealer by price fixing, much in the same way Bose maintains their pricing, and preventing the "bargain basement" dealers from eroding the business out from under storefronts.

While you and others may have some misgivings about a single 800 lb. gorilla, that gorilla was Walthers. If you look at these acquisitions from a hobby health standpoint, diversity among distributors will help. Sure, Horizon is now exclusively in control of Athearn and MDC, but the success of Athearn and the management machine that has brought it from the first days of Mr. Athearn's death to the present is still in control. Now, that team is in charge of MDC, which was really knocking on death's door until purchased by Horizon.

Horizon has long been a distributor of hobby supplies, even trains. And they've carried an extensive line, too. What they're doing now is taking charge of some of the most successful lines in HO scale history at a time when the future of those companies was less than certain. Remember, Athearn was purchased from the Athearn family as an investment. The company could have gone in any of several different directions (including liquidation) if it might have meant a better profit. Who knows what might have become of MDC. The people running the show now seem to really have a handle on how to keep this going and do it at a profit.

Some folks lament the passing of the blue box kit (which isn't really gone), but I'm really impressed with everything that has come down the line since.

[modelbob]

Horizon is doing the same thing Walthers did, only they're about 25 years behind. And Horizon has done it with well-known and respected brands, which seems to have brought on a storm of hostility toward them.

I think that what most people, including me, worry about is whether they'll continue to offer the same quality and diversity of products. How often have you seen some great little company get bought out by a mega-chain only to have its products go away?

I'm wary when any company, no matter who it is, controls a large section of the market. I suspects lots of other folks are too...

[abcraghead]

I think that what most people, including me, worry about is whether they'll continue to offer the same quality and diversity of products. How often have you seen some great little company get bought out by a mega-chain only to have its products go away?

I'm wary when any company, no matter who it is, controls a large section of the market. I suspects lots of other folks are too...

While I agree regarding consolodation, I also think RCH's point about the other possibilities is quite valid. Face it, in a world of "RTR everything", where seperately applied details and Atlas/Kato quality running gear is now the bar, Athearn was behind the times, and MDC nearly geriatric. It didn't look good for either of them, but especially for MDC.

Will there be "rationalizations"? Sure! And who wouldn't want that? I mean, honestly, who considers an MDC AAR 40' boxcar to be desireable? Especially when for the same price, you can get an *accurate* model from Accurail, that is engineered with far greater precision? As for Athearn, a lot of the products currently not available are due to upgrading work being underway, using retoolings of *scale* Railpower shells to replace those old 60's era widebody jobbers that just look obscene next to a P2K or Genesis model.

I'm sure that Horizon will probably make some discontinuances that some of us won't like. But by and large, I think the purchase is turning out to be a good thing, giving the hobbyist a better product, and providing the store owner with a viable alternative to Walthers, rather than just having to buy from second tier distributors who only sell things from past-it companies like Model Power and Con-Cor.

[ak-milw]

Now all they have to do is lower thier prices or they will be out of buisiness! I have already stopped buying any Athearns or MDC products, and if they buy up any other companies I will stop buying those also. I no it's no big deal a little guy like me is not buying their products, but I hate big companies pricing me out of a hobby I love so much!!!!!!! These are all just my opinions, even if they don't amount for much. :(

[abcraghead]

Considering that prices are raising -- even to the point that a $150 HO diesel is becoming common, ala P2K and Atlas -- I doubt Horizon will lower prices any.

Sadly it appears that the future is all RTR, all bell and whistle, and alll $$$.

[JeffShultz]

I know that Walther's was the 800lbs gorilla, which is one of the reasons I'm not too worried about Horizon. That gives us a couple of 800lbs gorilla... hopefully they'll keep each other from getting too aggressive.

[RCH]

Now all they have to do is lower thier prices or they will be out of buisiness! I have already stopped buying any Athearns or MDC products, and if they buy up any other companies I will stop buying those also. I no it's no big deal a little guy like me is not buying their products, but I hate big companies pricing me out of a hobby I love so much!!!!!!! These are all just my opinions, even if they don't amount for much. :(

Andy, I'll tell you: prices can and will go higher. I don't like it either and my hobby budget doesn't allow for much more than about $500 to $600 per year. If it makes you feel any better, adjust the price of say, the Athearn RTR GP35, which is a greatly improved model compared to the original Athearn GP35, from its current MSRP of $87.98 to 1980 dollars. The locomotive would cost $36.40 and adjusted to 1990 dollars it would cost $62.15. So, yes, there is an across-the-board increase in price, but it is tempered with improvements to the model, including plastic handrails, scale-width hood, vastly improved paint (both in appearance and conformance to the prototype, which saves me money) and newer drive.

I'm not able to do an apples-to-apples comparison on that model anymore, since I can't actually find an old-stock GP35 for sale. But, I was able to find a store offering 15% off new RTR Athearn locomotives by doing a Google search, so there is still some room for discounting. And with that discount, you're effectively buying today's locomotives at the prices of 14 years ago. There's even a store near me, Discount Model Trains in Addison, Texas, whose modus operandi has always been 20% off list. Discounts much deeper than that will hurt the hobby shop owners. Often if you're finding say P2K geeps at $30 each, they're west coast roads in an east coast shop and they've sat on the shelf for a year or two costing the shop money.

The real rub in all of this, for me at least, is that my personal income has not adjusted quite so well with the times or with my expenses, especially now that I'm a dad!

I'm sure I must be coming across as a Horizon apologist or even as an Athearn employee, but really I'm just thankful. From the time Athearn went up for sale after Mr. Athearn's death, through the sale to a "group of investors" (read: Larry the Liquidator from the film Other People's Money), through the parting of ways with Ed Ryan (a personal modeling hero and the one responsible for the Genesis series) to the sale to Horizon, just knowing Athearn is alive and well and cranking out the quality gear I want makes me happy. Even though I know I can't get all three Rescar CF7s and half a dozen Oakway SD60s (I'll be lucky to land a single CF7), I hope I'll run into the ones I want someday. Knowing that they're made by Athearn, they'll still be around and they'll still run like champs.

[ak-milw]

RC, I hear ya on the money crunch, by the time I save enough money to buy a specific PK2 engine they are already out of stock and not to be found. I have been forced to do most of my model buying at swap meets and shows, buying other peoples junk and trying to make them into something decent! :mad:

[RCH]

:D

I have some SD40-2s that have seen four different paint jobs over the past 17 years, if that's any indication of my hobby money! My wife and I just keep hoping if we can make it through potty training two girls she'll have some fun money and I can get something new from a hobby shop instead of ebay.