DCC strange-ness

[jacon12]

I've had a little P2K GP-9i for about a year now and it's a favorite engine of mine. Here's my photo of it..
http://i.pbase.com/o2/90/4990/1/52311081.UPGP9i.jpg
When I tried to crank her up this morning, nothing happened. To make a long story short, somehow the engine had reverted to it's out of the box address of 03 and all functions were set back to default also, such as sound. I reprogrammed it to 151 and everything seems to be fine now except the lights are doing a little crazy thing, like the reverse lights come on sometime and won't go off, then again maybe they will.
Has anyone else had some similar happen?
Jarrell

[jbaakko]

What decoder is installed in this bugger?

[jacon12]

What decoder is installed in this bugger?
Hmmm... that I don't know. Is it in the instruction book? It does have the Quantam Sound System and Train Control, if that makes any difference.
Jarrell

[SpaceMouse]

I know this is not a lot of help, but I've had DDC quirks with every Proto I've owned. A couple of them, I found solder bridges on the socket. My S1 switcher would run the lights in DC but not DCC. It started defaulting to 3 and then finally, the decoder died. But that was a Digitrax decoder.

[jacon12]

I know this is not a lot of help, but I've had DDC quirks with every Proto I've owned. A couple of them, I found solder bridges on the socket. My S1 switcher would run the lights in DC but not DCC. It started defaulting to 3 and then finally, the decoder died. But that was a Digitrax decoder.
I wonder why they'll do just fine for a long period of time, and then start the weird behavior.
I wish I knew the mechanics of the electronics in them better.
Thanks Chip.
Jarrell

[caellis]

Have you had any electrical storms in your area lately?

I also protect my DCC system with a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) that also protect against most low level lightning. Have never had a problem in 18 months.

[jacon12]

Have you had any electrical storms in your area lately?

I also protect my DCC system with a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) that also protect against most low level lightning. Have never had a problem in 18 months.

Charlie, I haven't had one lately. Man, we really need rain around my part of the country. We did have one about 3 weeks ago that got my cable modem. I don't remember if I've ran this particular engine since that happened or not. Maybe ..... well, who knows.. :)
Thanks for the suggestion.
Jarrell

[RexHea]

Jarrell, many of my QSI (Quantum) get these little quirps ever so often, but I have never pinpointed the root cause. My guess is bad contact with the track power during startup of the command module causing erroneous programming or deletions to occur.

Although I have had some weird programming changes, most of the time only the address is messed up. For all of these glitches, I first try programming the address again and then if other things are still messed up, do a complete reset and custom program again. If you don't use programming software such as JMRI, then be sure and right down your CV setting in a log book for each engine just for these reasons.;)

Have you tried a complete reset with removal of the jumper or by programming it in? If you have lost your manual, go to the BLI site and download the QSI manuals.

[jacon12]

Jarrell, many of my QSI (Quantum) get these little quirps ever so often, but I have never pinpointed the root cause. My guess is bad contact with the track power during startup of the command module causing erroneous programming or deletions to occur.

Although I have had some weird programming changes, most of the time only the address is messed up. For all of these glitches, I first try programming the address again and then if other things are still messed up, do a complete reset and custom program again. If you don't use programming software such as JMRI, then be sure and right down your CV setting in a log book for each engine just for these reasons.;)

Have you tried a complete reset with removal of the jumper or by programming it in? If you have lost your manual, go to the BLI site and download the QSI manuals.

Rex, you're probably very close if not right on the answer. I pulled the engine over to a programming track, went into the correct CV's and reset them and now everything seems to be ok.
I've been meaning to ask you about the type weathering you did on your sawmill, it really looked great. If I remember right you used an india ink wash, didn't you, or did you use chalks also. If you don't mind posting that picture again (in this thread) I'd appreciate it.
Thanks for the thoughts!
Jarrell

[GandyDancer]

Is this one of those decoders that have the "magic wand" like the BLI units do? If so has it been around any magnets.

[GatorDave]

Jarrell, many of my QSI (Quantum) get these little quirps ever so often, but I have never pinpointed the root cause. My guess is bad contact with the track power during startup of the command module causing erroneous programming or deletions to occur.

Although I have had some weird programming changes, most of the time only the address is messed up. For all of these glitches, I first try programming the address again and then if other things are still messed up, do a complete reset and custom program again. If you don't use programming software such as JMRI, then be sure and right down your CV setting in a log book for each engine just for these reasons.;)

Have you tried a complete reset with removal of the jumper or by programming it in? If you have lost your manual, go to the BLI site and download the QSI manuals.


Jerrell,
As bad as I hate saying "ditto"... Well, "ditto" to what Rex has said. My BLI Hudson (old version that I really should have upgraded) loses it memory more often than I do!
I don't know why, but I often have to reset it. And sometimes my P2K E6 with QSI just doesn't respond at all.

It always takes a reset to get things right... usually a soft
reset gets the job done. But, other times I have had to take
the shell off and use the reset jumper.

On the other hand, my BLI E8 has never given me any trouble. It does have the "magic wand" reset... if that matters.(?)

I really believe in keeping a record of your CV values. It saves a lot of headaches when you have to input the values all over again. Good luck, Dave

[RexHea]

Jarrell,
I used chalks for the rusting effect on the roof and india ink on the sides. Before the india ink, I used a greyish wash (a little heavier on the paint side of the mix) on the building sides to give a more weathered look then only a light india ink wash. I don't bother with Dullcote on the chalk since I don't plan on touching it.

Are these the photos you wanted to see?

[Cjcrescent]

Uhh, Rex?
I see a place ya missed there old friend. 4th board over 6" down, the ink's a little light & da chalk's too heavy.

[grande man]

Hi all. I moved this here to the DCC forum because it has alot of great info in it and I don't want to see it get buried in the General Discussion forum and be unavailable for someone who may need the info later.

Jerrell, the photo in the lead post is AWESOME! :cool:

[jbaakko]

See now this is farther in then I had thought. The only known issue i have on the top of my head was the DCC & Sound in Tower 55 units, and I thought it might have been the same decoder.

[NZRMac]

My J class (QSI) has lost it's mind a couple of times, just a quick re-programme and away she purrs.

Rex any reason why you unload logs into water then up into the mill from there? Just curious.

Ken.

[L&N Castle]

Morning Guys. Concerning the subject of DCC quirkieness,I wonder if long time storage would effect decoder settings? I have most of my locos in storage right now,and I wonder if they could be affected in the same manner as one's on the layout?William.

[SpaceMouse]

Rex any reason why you unload logs into water then up into the mill from there? Just curious.

Ken.

How else are you going to get pond-dried lumber?

[RexHea]

My J class (QSI) has lost it's mind a couple of times, just a quick re-programme and away she purrs.

Rex any reason why you unload logs into water then up into the mill from there? Just curious.

Ken.

ref: pine, I don't know about other lumber.
Ken, many think log ponds were for just storing or a method of retrieving logs to feed in the sawmill, but during warmer/hot weather the inside of the logs will get a mold called "bluestain" if they are allowed to sit out in the air for any length of time. To my knowledge, this does not dimenish the quality of the lumber other than a bluish discoloration, but will cause a lower grade to be assigned to the lumber. Many sawmills use huge sprinkler systems to keep the logs wet.

In the early 80's, I worked at a high tech (computers, laser measuring, etc.) sawmill that used the logs up so fast (over 200,000 board feet/shift) that it was impractical to have them slowed down in a pond. Instead, after the "green lumber" was cut and while being conveyed to the stacker, it was dipped in a trough filled with chemicals to prevent or kill any mold.

Carey: I have been planning to repair that board for the longest time. Thanks for the reminder.:D

GrandeMan: Good idea!;)

Jarrell: Forgot to tell you that your photo is great shot!:)

[jacon12]

Is this one of those decoders that have the "magic wand" like the BLI units do? If so has it been around any magnets.
Yes, it is the magic wand type but to my knowledge the only magnet in the train room is the one that came with it and it's in a box stored in a cabinet.
It seems to be functioning correctly since I reprogrammed it.
Jarrell

[RexHea]

Morning Guys. Concerning the subject of DCC quirkieness,I wonder if long time storage would effect decoder settings? I have most of my locos in storage right now,and I wonder if they could be affected in the same manner as one's on the layout?William.

Jarrell/William: The decoders use a type of memory for the CV settings that does not require power to maintain its memory. Similiar to an EEPROM. About the only thing that could change it would have to be electrical. Even the magic wand itself doesn't change the memory, but from a magnetic field induces a voltage into a circuit that does.

As far as the magic wand inadvertently changing the settings, the few times I have used mine required a very close proximity to do anything.

[jbaakko]

Jarrell/William: The decoders use a type of memory for the CV settings that does not require power to maintain its memory. Similiar to an EEPROM. About the only thing that could change it would have to be electrical. Even the magic wand itself doesn't change the memory, but from a magnetic field induces a voltage into a circuit that does.

As far as the magic wand inadvertently changing the settings, the few times I have used mine required a very close proximity to do anything.
Depending on the chip's memory storage you CAN effect it with a magnet. Now the question really becomes, not could the magnet effect it or not, but does he have a big enough magnet TO effect it (which i doubt). Alot of disk style hard drives use magnets (thus the magnets that were used in the WPF)...

Anyways to me, it would have to have been an electrical surge to do that, OR a short somewhere's

[RexHea]

Josh, I hate to say this, but decoders do not use magnetic memory storage...totally different from common hard drives. Actual electronic components are designed to retain memory without power (non-volatile memory). Some designs allow for 10 years of memory retention. This is not saying that a large electromagnet wouldn't damage the electronics or even cause a reset. But, this is far from the reach of what we are talking about. Again, the magic wand induces a voltage in the reset circuit of the decoder for reset.

Your digital camera uses one type of this memory on the flash (flash memory) card.
A EEPROM is very much like a flash memory, but when it is being erased by an electric field/voltage it is done 1 bit at a time instead of in packets.

[jbaakko]

This is not saying that a large electromagnet wouldn't damage the electronics or even cause a reset. But, this is far from the reach of what we are talking about.
Exactly what I ment by that post... Although, of note, you'd be supprised by what kills camera memory cards...

[jacon12]

Jarrell,
I used chalks for the rusting effect on the roof and india ink on the sides. Before the india ink, I used a greyish wash (a little heavier on the paint side of the mix) on the building sides to give a more weathered look then only a light india ink wash. I don't bother with Dullcote on the chalk since I don't plan on touching it.

Are these the photos you wanted to see?
Yes, I noticed that board also, the one with 15 grains of chalk too much... :D
Rex, do you use alcohol to mix the india ink with? Thanks for posting these pictures again, that is a mighty fine modeling job.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

Fellas, much as I hate to say it.... what's that old saying...misery loves company. It's comforting to know most everybody has pretty much the same problems...;)
I did a reprogram of the address and everything seems to be ok now except for one little thing. The locomotive will be just happily going down the line (in forward) and the rear light will all of a sudden come on and stay on. I'll stop the engine and reverse it, come to a stop and the light will go out (like it should) go into forward several feet and the rear light pops on again.
I'm going out there now and I'll try a complete reset and see what happens.
Thank for the suggestions!
Jarrell

[SpaceMouse]

Depending on Chip's memory storage you CAN effect it with a magnet.

Not if I'm wearing my aluminum foil pyramid.

[RexHea]

Not if I'm wearing my aluminum foil pyramid.

Hahahaha! That is funny!

http://cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/boese/a090.gif

[RexHea]

Jarrell,
Yes, I use the India Ink in alcohol. I like to add about 4 or 5 drops of ink into a medium size bottle of alcohol and then if I need a heavier wash, I can pour it in a cup and add more ink. I don't remember exactly my mix for the mill. If I were you, I would start out with a weaker mix and judge by your own view.

Keep in mind that a saw mill's buildings are more weathered than grimy looking...even around a boiler house. They try very hard to keep things free of oily grime because of ruining the lumber. There is always plenty of dust or mud.

A sawmill is always: very hot or cold, very dusty or muddy, everything is razor sharp, and when you fall...very hard. No in-betweens! The Millwright work is only for young men.

If you are going for a modern mill, many use sawdust (even bark) from the mill as fuel for the kiln furnace. These furnaces have 2nd and 3d burn chambers that allow for an almost complete burn of fuel = very very little soot.:)

[jacon12]

Jarrell,
Yes, I use the India Ink in alcohol. I like to add about 4 or 5 drops of ink into a medium size bottle of alcohol and then if I need a heavier wash, I can pour it in a cup and add more ink. I don't remember exactly my mix for the mill. If I were you, I would start out with a weaker mix and judge by your own view.

Keep in mind that a saw mill's buildings are more weathered than grimy looking...even around a boiler house. They try very hard to keep things free of oily grime because of ruining the lumber. There is always plenty of dust or mud.

A sawmill is always: very hot or cold, very dusty or muddy, everything is razor sharp, and when you fall...very hard. No in-betweens! The Millwright work is only for young men.

If you are going for a modern mill, many use sawdust (even bark) from the mill as fuel for the kiln furnace. These furnaces have 2nd and 3d burn chambers that allow for an almost complete burn of fuel = very very little soot.:)

Thank you for the formula, Rex. I know what you mean about sawmills. I have a first cousin that, years ago, worked in one. One day he didn't move is hand fast enough and the saw went right up between the thumb and first finger and up and out the forearm. It took a few surgeons a while to reattach things.
He quit right after that.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

Well, I did the complete reset and I thought I had it but I didn't knock on wood fast enough I guess. It started the reverse headlight thing again.
Oh well, I'll live with it a while til I can't stand it anymore and then get it fixed.
Jarrell

[SpaceMouse]

My dad spent a bit of time working for the Union Lumber Company (I found out about it after I decided to model it.) He tells me of how dangerous it was. He was working throwing chains in the camps and got a chance to transfer to the mill. He spent two weeks there, and witnessed two major injuries, not saw related, but things like breaking cables that snapped with such velocity that it cut off a guy's arm, etc. He transfered back to the camps.

[RexHea]

Yes, they are extremely dangerous. While I was there and beside all the cuts and broken bones, two men were killed within 1 year. One had opened the door to the burner (kiln furnace) after it had been shut down for a couple of days to inspect a bearing. He looked in, saw that there were no hot coals, and proceeded to the bearing on the walkway. He tripped and fell into the ashes! The top of the ashes were cold and crusted, but underneath were red hot coals several feet thick. It burned him bad and cooked his lungs. The other guy was a maintenance tech that while changing light bulbs, fell 30 feet from an upper beam and landed on his head. No safety harness! Boy, OSHA was p.o.'d