How Many Here do Operations with Car Cards?

[dthurman]

I have been using car cards for quite sometime now. I really like how it adds to the challange of operating. How many others are doing this, or planning to. Also if you have any tips or modifications you have done to the system/method of car cards and waybills. Where you find your information to fill out a waybill.

Thanks!

[TrainboyH16-44]

I tried it once, but found it was too much of a strain on the imagination to make a few building flats scattered around the layout become industries that produce 10 carloads a day.
I think that it works for most people, just not me.
Matthew

[TrainboyH16-44]

I should probably elaborate. I didn't get past the planning stages where I was tring to think of a name and purpose for my unlabeled walls. If you have industries that know who they are and what they do, go for it.
Matthew

[grande man]

We used to use a very simple card system but are moving on to a computer operations program. I gotta get on those staging yards so we can do full operating sessions.

[NWR #200]

I'm developing a system that incorporates switchlists and waybills. Train crews use the switchlists when working. The waybills are handled in the back office by the freight manager (me.) It will hopefully be used for an active interchange group I am trying to set up. It involves a lot of paperwork, sorting, and MS Excel so it may not be for the faint at heart :D

[SpaceMouse]

I have that planned for my home layout and we are in the process of transitioning to that system at our club. Right now we have a clipboard full of switching sheets, but we know it is too hard to manage. It is also flawed in that at the end of the run, we are not set-up for the next run.

[dthurman]

I have found the Car Card/Car Forwarding method is pretty forgiving on mistakes, also no paperwork once you have your cars written down, and your waybills done, imagine 200 cars, then X 4 for a waybill for each car. But once done it seems to be working well. I am wondering how people mix up the or setup the way they bring cars on and off the layout. I don't have staging, which I am VERY sorry I don't but even with staging, I doubt I would have enough room for all the cars.

[grande man]

I don't have staging, which I am VERY sorry I don't but even with staging, I doubt I would have enough room for all the cars.

There's not anywhere you could punch through the backdrop and add a yard? Just thinking out loud.

[dthurman]

I have been mulling over adding 2 switches on the back track areas, one on each end, then extending it out. I have "permission" from the boss to expand, I just need to figure out how or where. Being semi-retired has cut my buying budget down a bit, but I think I may take up a part-time job, if they need me at my LHS :) they pay in trade... Hmm I can see a lot of overtime being required ;)

[Brakie]

I use a a car card/waybill system that was introduce by Doug Smith back in the early 60s..However,over the years I refined this system to better suit my needs.The way my system works is if the car is being pickup empty the car card simply states"Return when empty to (say)CSX." I eliminated the empty waybill and just use the car card.Of course for a loaded or a empty for load car I use a waybill.. :D

[dthurman]

I use a a car card/waybill system that was introduce by Doug Smith back in the early 60s..However,over the years I refined this system to better suit my needs.The way my system works is if the car is being pickup empty the car card simply states"Return when empty to (say)CSX." I eliminated the empty waybill and just use the car card.Of course for a loaded or a empty for load car I use a waybill.. :D

Brakie

Are you saying you use the waybill as a load waybill and after each turn, the card is considered empty? I hope that makes sense. If that's what you mean, I have considered that way also, it actually gives you an 8 sided waybill in a way.

[jrbernier]

I use the car card system. I did modify it in that I use 2 sided waybills, raher than the 4 sided ones. The first side is the 'car order' that captures the perspective empty car and routes it to the shipper for loading, and the opposite side is the 'waybill' for moving the 'load' from the 'shipper' to the 'consignee'.
I have six days(or operating sessions) worth of these 'car order/waybill' cards, and of course 1 'car card' for each freight car on the system. 1/6th of the 'bills' are pulled each day, and the traffic manager(me' tries to find empties that can be used. If I cannot fine a correct empty, the 'bill' is added to the next days pile(just like the prototype). It takes me about 15-20 minutes at most to 'setup' before an operating session(this is with about 100 cars on the system). After cars have been 'delivered' to the 'consignee', the 'waybill' is stripped and goes to the bottom of the pile.
What I like about this system is how easy it is for operators to use, and how 'forgiving' it is! I tried to 'computerize' the system(both with comercial software like 'Ship It' and with my own DB2 based 'Clipper' programs). I seem to wind up with more paperwork/computer time every time I tried it(and I am a computer person). Also, since my railroad is based in the 50's, 'on-line' computer based operation just did not seem to be 'right'!

Jim Bernier

[Brakie]

David,After I remove the waybill from the car card the car is empty and can be return to the nearest interchange or return to the yard for forwarding to the railroad/corporation that owns the cars.
Like this..Click on image to enlarge.

[scubaterry]

I have my car cards/way bills made up but have yet to get the layout to the point that an op session would be worthwhile. In the mean time I play with the cards so when the time comes I will have a better idea of what I am doing and how they work. I like the idea of carcards/waybills it puts it all together and organizes your movements. As you can tell it is all new to me and only time will tell if I love them or hate them.
Terry

[NWR #200]

Oh boy Brian, your on unsettled ground there! I actually came up with while sitting at work, taking a bunch of receipt tape from my register and writing it down as I thought of it. I'll see about going into detail with it tomorrow. It'll probably need a whole thread for it. It is VERY intensive in paper and time.

[dthurman]

Seth

You mentioned an interchange group. Sounds very interesting. I have been tossing around the idea of joinging or seeing if there is a group that I could exchange my plants loads with their industries. Can you give any more details? Not sure if I like the idea of more paper work ;)

[Cjcrescent]

I have in my pocession a computer program that prints out the waybills for use in each session. A friend of my wrote it almost 20 years ago before anyone else was doing it.
You, of course have to input into the computer, all your locations like yards, interchanges, Industries, both shipper and consignee, the cars, and if you want, the loads they carry, (a car can carry several different types of loads depending on car type). If you input enough destinations, loads etc, it can be many sessions before a move is repeated, if ever. You can also do things like use proper AAR designations for your cars, along with reporting marks and numbers. If you're into it you can even assign a "charge" for a setout at an industry and at the end of a session, find out if you made any "money"
There is a lot of work to set it up, but once done the computer keeps track of all cars. At the end of the session, the "dispatcher" marks the movements finished as complete, and the computer updates locations. The waybills are then thrown away. The computer prints out 4 waybills per page so the paper use is cutdown somewhat.

We used this system on a layout when I lived in mobile, and found that it was very easy to use once set up. The key to it was marking the waybills movement as complete and reporting this to the computer. Otherwise the car wouldn't be availble for use until it was. A "shuffle" program was also added to it to prevent the movements from being repeated very often.

[dthurman]

Hmm

All good ideas, only thing for me, is, I was hoping to be more paperless once all the car cards are done, and the waybills filled out. I use the 4 cycle bills, and if I need additional "turns" for a car, I just give it another 4 cycle waybill and number it 5-6-7-8 I not sure if I want to print out a switchlist and waybill sheet for each session, the trouble I can see is if you "don't" run by the computer even 1 session, you have pretty well fubar'd yourself, unless you respot all the cars. I do a lot of 1 man shows, so maybe the car card is more in line with a session like this. I can see the larger clubs, were people aren't so inclined to get grab a throttle and run. I DO LIKE the setout charge idea. That brings a little more realism to the table.

[cuyama]

Folks,

I'm a big fan of car-card-and-waybill, having developed ops sessions utilizing them for several layouts. There's a thread over on the "other leading brand" site that I began as a "Get Started in Ops on a 4X8" that turned into a CC&WB thread.
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46614

I use both hand-written waybills and those generated by the Shenware Waybills program, which has worked really well for me.
http://members.aol.com/Shenware/waybills.html

Regards,

Byron
October Newsletter on-line now (http://www.modelrail.us/news)

[dthurman]

Folks,

I'm a big fan of car-card-and-waybill, having developed ops sessions utilizing them for several layouts. There's a thread over on the "other leading brand" site that I began as a "Get Started in Ops on a 4X8" that turned into a CC&WB thread.
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46614

I use both hand-written waybills and those generated by the Shenware Waybills program, which has worked really well for me.
http://members.aol.com/Shenware/waybills.html

Regards,

Byron
October Newsletter on-line now (http://www.modelrail.us/news)

Byron

Why not get a clinic started here? I think it would do well. Also it more then likely would get it's own section? I love operations. Reading it over at "the other place" right now.

[cuyama]

Why not get a clinic started here? I think it would do well. Also it more then likely would get it's own section? I love operations. Reading it over at "the other place" right now.

Well, I'm not as diligent a forum citizen as Joe F. I don't think I could keep a virtual clinic going in both places at once -- though he does it with ease. Maybe the next one I'll do here ...

By the way, there's also a lot of ops discussion at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ry-ops-industrialSIG/

... for those of you who can manage yet another forum ...

Regards,

Byron

[dthurman]

I'm in that group, they get pretty intense :D and are very informative.

I just figured you might get better staying power here. I know what you meant by the goods one dropping to obscurity over yonder.

[Alcomotive]

Byron

Why not get a clinic started here? I think it would do well. Also it more then likely would get it's own section? I love operations. Reading it over at "the other place" right now.



Guys I know this post is old but....

Would you all be interested in discussing waybills systems etc... a good over all discussion on this would be great! I have the SHENWARE program and am learning to use it at this time. Also it comes with MiTrains as well. I have got all of my rolling stock recorded (which is also growing) but am in the process doing the photos. The loco roster is done and growing :D here is the link for a free trial. The 2 programs work in tandem and does real well. You can also get Indman "free" which is cool too. http://www.shenware.com/

Let me all hear ya thoughts and types of systems you use!

[NickB]

Ok I'm still very new to MRR and would appreciate it if someone could give a generic explanation of waybills sytems. Also what would be done in an operations system as far as determining what other operators do on your layout.

[SpaceMouse]

Okay,

I'm sure someone will jump in here with a booklet, but to get you started thinking about it waybills are the paperwork representing real world cargo. Car cards are something modelers use to represent cars (locos and caboose). The car cards are folded to form a pocket. What modelers do is create a quadruple way bill that has 4 logical destinations for a car that can be repeated. IE. Coal goes from mine to yard, coal goes yard to treatment plant, empty goes to yard, empty goes to mine.

These are written on the waybill so that 1st destination is on side one top and only it shows in the car card. Second destination has you rotate the waybill so that the bottom is now showing. Side 3 you flip the waybill over. Side four you rotate the waybill so that side 4 is up.

Each time you deliver a car, you rotate the waybill.

The car card stays with the car--so you either leave it in a slot (on the facia) the represents the track in your industy or yard, or you carry it with you if it is on your train.

[Harry]

or here :http://www.westportterminal.de/operation.html

[SpaceMouse]

This topic kinda died a quick death.

[Alcomotive]

yeah it sure did...I guess not many people use a waybill system...maybe they do not see the need or maybe do not understand it or dont run operating sessions. An big advantage of having one...is having an inventory of your rolling stock and locos....hmmmm.....I am surprised of how this quickly lacked interest....

[Cjcrescent]

yeah it sure did...I guess not many people use a waybill system...maybe they do not see the need or maybe do not understand it or dont run operating sessions. An big advantage of having one...is having an inventory of your rolling stock and locos....hmmmm.....I am surprised of how this quickly lacked interest....

I don't think that it's from a lick of interest, so much as a lack of knowledge and/or experience with "formal" op sessions.

Since the mid 1970's I learned operations and have participated in them using the car cards. I've even used tab-on-cars, colored thumb tacks, and even have used a computer based waybill system.

It is a program called COSS,(Computer Operated Software System), that generated waybils for each car at the start of the session. Setup was just like any system you use. You had to determine which industry, needed what car and at what time and where the destination was, On layout, Off layout, yards, etc. When told the # of waybills to generate, it would do so. Only "bad" part was you had to "manually" decide which trains got which waybills. Best part, it was free, and has been in use since before there were programs like this on the market. It was written by a good friend who is no longer an MR, but it still works.

There is also switchlist generators TAG being one. The program was offered in an issue of MR way back in the mid '80s, but you had to type the program in yourself. It was originally written by Robert Fink and still is being used around the country today. It ran/runs in DOS.

Switchlists are different from waybills in one big way. You only carry one piece of paper that give you reporting marks, car types and destinations. It will also give you a list of pick-ups based on which train you are, and where you're going.

Rex uses Rail-Op, which seems to me to be the best system out there. There is a demo available for download, (free), and you can "run" an op session using the info in the demo, but you can't change anything in the system. You can view the system and what it can do at http://www.railop.com (http://www.railop.com/)

Check it out, you may like it enough to buy it.

[SpaceMouse]

I've pretty much decided to go car cards and waybills, but that's as far as I've thought it through. I have some 20 named businesses and not enough locos or rolling stock to service them. Of course, I still haven't started the bench work so I have some time.

What I haven't decided is how I'm going to move trains. My inclination is Train Orders because that is what is used on both layouts I operate on. However, the SP (and the rest of the world) was dark in the 1880's so I'm thinking some variation of signal blocks via telegraph. I just haven't figured it out yet.