The Weathering Thread [Archive] - ModelRailroadForums.com

uspscsx

10-01-2005, 04:17 AM

I don't know how many weatherers there actually are here, but I decided to create a thread just for weathering. I, by no means, am an expert, but I have weathered a bit. I weather under the name Appalachian Weathering and Modelworks(eBay). [If that is considered "advertising," let me know and I'll edit it out.] C'mon in, show your weathered models and share your knowledge!

Here are a few pics of things I've done/am doing.

http://i14.ebayimg.com/03/i/04/a6/72/6e_1_b.JPG
"Before" pictures(eBay) of the two hoppers to follow.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/P9301217.jpg
Progress...

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/PA051231.jpg
Leads to this. There's a little story involved with this one: I had applied a wash to it that absolutely messed up the car cosmetically. So I decided to try a method of "fading" lettering by using sandpaper. Well, I rubbed a little too hard, leaving hideous marks down the car. As a result, it went into the "trash pile"(As I call it), UNTIL I discovered the magical secrets hidden in Rich Divizio's weathering forums. So, I experimented, and came up with that seen above.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/PA051241.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/PA051243.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/PA051244.jpg
Close-ups of the side of the hopper.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/PA051237.jpg
Blurry hatch shot.

I finally decided to experiment with a RailBox. This one's for me to keep(Once I get finished..duh ;)):

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/P9301194.jpg

Here are my first two projects to go up on eBay.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/P9030975.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/P9030976.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/P9030989.jpg
My first ever: A Roundhouse CSX/SBD mill gondola with load. "Transportation" patched, as per prototypes. Sold for $12.87.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/P9131093.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/P9131096.jpg
My second: A Walthers Santa Fe 2-bay cement hopper. I combined about 10 or so prototypes into this one. Sold for $15.90.

Now, let's see some of yours!

uspscsx

10-01-2005, 04:27 AM

Ughh, sorry about the huge photos earlier, but Mr. Railbox and Mrs. Gondola did not seem to want to be resized properly.

grande man

10-01-2005, 04:38 AM

Ok, enough of the teasing, we need how-to details. :D

I've got a weathering method I use. Do you want me to post it here or start a new thread (it's gonna be kinda long)?

uspscsx

10-01-2005, 04:49 AM

Ok, enough of the teasing, we need how-to details. :D

I've got a weathering method I use. Do you want me to post it here or start a new thread (it's gonna be kinda long)?
I say post it here. After all, this IS "The Weathering Thread." :D

jbaakko

10-01-2005, 05:06 AM

SWEET, I've been trying to find tips to layer weathering, i have a longerunner set that'll need it soon.

grande man

10-01-2005, 05:12 AM

Ok, here goes...

My method isn't as detailed as we've seen above. It's great for quickly getting a realistic weathered effect on a fleet of models though. Keep in mind, I'm no expert, and there's usually a right way, a wrong way, and Grande Man's way. :D

The "victim" and supplies.
http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL615/3680850/8376099/113512628.jpg

The first step with lighter colored models is to "soot" them with black chalk. Cover the whole model. I prefer an angled brush to work chalk into all the nooks and cranies.
http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL615/3680850/8376099/113512618.jpg

Using a paper towel dampened with "wet water" (small amount of detergent, used in scenery work), clean excess soot using a verticle wiping motion. The idea is to leave streaks where they would accumulate on the real thing such as around structure that's above flush.
http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL615/3680850/8376099/113512620.jpg

At this point, coat the model with Dull Cote. Since the wheels have been removed, try to keep the spray out of the truck journals. Dull Cote "sets" the black previously added, while at the same time, toning it down somewhat. It also creates a surface that "grabs" lighter colored chalk soon to be added.
http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL615/3680850/8376099/113512614.jpg

Using the same brush, add dirt and rust. Since we model the West, little rust is used. Lighter grays can also be added to the lower areas where ballast dust would accumulate on the prototype.
http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL615/3680850/8376099/113512626.jpg

We use Floquil Rail Brown to paint wheels. Be sure to keep paint off the bearing area and treads. The trucks are dry brushed with Rail Brown and chalk highlights are added.
http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL615/3680850/8376099/113512623.jpg

Presto! The finished hopper at CF&I's Split Rock Mine #4.
http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL615/3680850/8376099/113512634.jpg

grande man

10-01-2005, 05:14 AM

Same method, lighter base color. Yes, I did fix the spot I missed. :D

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL615/3680850/7880080/99959787.jpg

grande man

10-01-2005, 05:42 AM

One thing I didn't mention. Dull Cote give windows a glazed look. It looks ok for trailing locos in a consist but you're better off taping caboose/loco windows with scotch tape and trimming with an Exacto before applying Dull Cote. If you were careful, you could do a great rendition of windshield wiper marks on a dirty window.

dthurman

10-01-2005, 05:57 AM

Well I finally got my notification :)

I do have a how to for this car, but it's so late I will try and get it organized for a Saturday posting. Also thanks Eric for the invite over. Even if MR does end the lockdown, I noticed from lurking while waiting to get the okay, there seems to be a pretty nice group of folks here.

Here is a PT box car I did:

http://www.railimages.com/albums/davidthurman/aai.sized.jpg

Here is my first real weathering attempt with chalks, oils and glue:

http://www.railimages.com/albums/davidthurman/abp.sized.jpg

grande man

10-01-2005, 06:55 AM

Nice job David. I look forward to the how-to. You guys are getting serious about the weathering.

uspscsx

10-01-2005, 01:41 PM

I plan on doing a step-by-step for my next "eBay car." With the RailWire competition and working on models for eBay...It might be mid-October before I can do it. BUT! I will add in a few things I have learned.

CSX_road_slug

10-01-2005, 02:40 PM

Excellent thread, I'll have to bookmark this one!

I've been experimenting with weathering locos. I didn't document my technique because I wasn't sure how they would turn out, but I was pleased with the results. When I have more time later, I'll post a few pics.

CBCNSfan

10-01-2005, 03:59 PM

Excellent thread, I'll have to bookmark this one! I agree, weathering is something I haven't attempted yet. Of course I'm not much of a painter either. Sprayed one last night, it went on in globs then run down the sides and pooled in places, and looked translucent in others. I wiped it all off as best I could using a rag and Q tips, not the best I know but they were handy. Re sprayed it again from about 18", seemed to go on in a fine spray, no pooling or runs just a nice even coat and I can't see any wipe off marks either. I'm still in a state of shock :eek: because of how good it turned out. LOL I used the whole bottle of Badger paint .

http://bestsmileys.com/textinbubble1/13.gif Willis

uspscsx

10-01-2005, 04:50 PM

grande man

10-01-2005, 04:57 PM

Grande Man,
You paint your cars' wheelsets Rail Brown? One thing I notice around this part of Coal Country is that their wheelsets aren't brown...They always seem to be a grimy black. That's what I paint my wheelsets with. I have started to experiment with Polly Scale Rust Brown, Oily Black, and Grimy Black. But, for coal hoppers, I suggest using Polly Scale Grimy Black.

Not that the Rail Brown doesn't look good!:)

I'll have to give it a try. I'm wondering how it would look dry brushed over the Rail Brown?

I've got an old Badger airbrush that I've never used. I cleaned it up the other day and am itching to try it out. There's no telling what'll end up in the scrap heap... :D

uspscsx

10-01-2005, 05:07 PM

I'll have to give it a try. I'm wondering how it would look dry brushed over the Rail Brown?

I've got an old Badger airbrush that I've never used. I cleaned it up the other day and am itching to try it out. There's no telling what'll end up in the scrap heap... :D
:D

Drybrushed over Rail Brown? Sounds about right to me. You'll have to post photos if you try it!

Swissengineer

10-01-2005, 06:41 PM

Ok, enough of the teasing, we need how-to details. :D

I've got a weathering method I use. Do you want me to post it here or start a new thread (it's gonna be kinda long)?

Take a look here (http://www.modeltrainsweathered.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=b810c73ebc54cfc9de13f1b989d09202) and here (http://www.modeltrainsweathered.com/inspirationyard.htm) . This sites are really awesome :)

Stefan

RCH

10-01-2005, 08:34 PM

Here's a web page showing my process with artist's oils:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ryan.harris/HGPX10.html

And a web page showing a couple boxcars, with plans to add more photos someday:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ryan.harris/weather.html

I've experimented with many methods in the past, but using artist's oils seems to be my favorite medium these days.

dthurman

10-01-2005, 09:19 PM

Ryan

That Cov Hopper is excellent. Thumbs Up work on that.

grande man

10-01-2005, 09:37 PM

Ryan

That Cov Hopper is excellent. Thumbs Up work on that.

I'll second that! Ryan, how many of these have you done? I'd imagine that a fleet of rolling stock could take a while to do. Man, what a great looking fleet it'd be though!

uspscsx

10-01-2005, 10:38 PM

Well guys, I went shopping today. Oh how fun it was. First, I went to Hobbytown USA and got an HO Scale Athearn RTR PS 5277 Railbox, Some of that Testors Clear Parts and Window Maker Cement, and some Dullcote in a cheap spray can. Then, I went to Michael's(Local craft store) and bought $15 worth of chalks, and a brush to apply chalks with. Overall, a good trip. The RailBox will be going on eBay. You think I should do a step-by-step on here similar to MrKluke's on The Railwire?

uspscsx

10-01-2005, 11:56 PM

Here is that RailBox:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Models%20Before%20Weathering/PA131267.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Models%20Before%20Weathering/PA131268.jpg
I love that realistic overspray on the roof! Plus, wire grabs and stirrups, metal wheelsets, and a few other details. AND, I plan on adding air hoses and coupler cut bars. This one is gonna look good! :eek:

grande man

10-01-2005, 11:58 PM

Then, I went to Michael's(Local craft store) and bought $15 worth of chalks, and a brush to apply chalks with.

I was in Hobby Lobby the other day and saw a variety of artist pastels in appropriate colors. Is that what you bought? I wasn't sure they were what I needed. My chalk supply I bought years ago at a now defunct LHS are about gone.

uspscsx

10-02-2005, 12:01 AM

I was in Hobby Lobby the other day and saw a variety of artist pastels in appropriate colors. Is that what you bought? I wasn't sure they were what I needed. My chalk supply I bought years ago at a now defunct LHS are about gone.
Yeah, that's probably what I got. I got a 12-pack of Loew-Cornell artist pastels for $7.99. I also got some fancy brand of artist's crayons to finish up the WC hopper. $4 for two of them! Sheesh.

It seems we have a Hobby-Lobby around here as well. Haven't been there in forever if there is one.

dthurman

10-02-2005, 12:34 AM

Just about any artist pastels will work. I was also at Hobby Lobby the other day, bought a ton of misc stuff, they have some pretty good prices compared to my LHS, I bought 3 bags of WS Polly Fiber for like $2.00 ea. I was going to buy some artist oil pastels, not sure what the difference would be. Also Hobby Lobby carries a large assortment of india inks in a ton of colors.

RCH

10-02-2005, 02:46 AM

There are pastel chalks and there are oil pastels. The chalks are exactly that. The oil pastels are more like a soft, oily crayon.

GM, I have several freight cars done similarly to that HGPX car, but I haven't photographed many of them. In fact, most are in storage now that my girls are 2 and 3 years old. It's just too risky a proposition to keep them anywhere near their reach. But, someday I'll get them out, make the necessary repairs and photograph them.

As far as the amount of time it takes to do these cars is concerned, you're right: it takes a long time. But, it's worth it. I have found that having the finished product, while satisfying, is not nearly as enjoyable as the process of creating it, so in the end, it's worth every last minute.

To put the amount of time it takes in perspective, I have a 52 car grain train I've been working on replicating from photos, notes, memory, etc. I have two of five locomotives done, a caboose and two locomotives in progress and about 30 freight cars complete. I've been at it for 14 years.

grande man

10-02-2005, 02:51 AM

Well Ryan, your work is mighty fine. While I'm happy with my "dirtied" models, I'm inspired to give "superdetailed weathering" a try myself.

RCH

10-02-2005, 03:33 AM

Well, thanks Grande Man. Let me tell you, I'm more than a little envious of your layout and fleet. You do awfully nice work yourself.

uspscsx

10-02-2005, 03:34 AM

Well guys, I'm goin' to start my "RailBox-From start to finish" thread..

See-ya!

uspscsx

10-04-2005, 10:22 PM

I have another tip: If you are planning on weathering a Railbox, you NEED some brand of dull yellow chalk. It changed my Railbox's life..Hehe.

More later...

Matt

dthurman

10-05-2005, 01:40 AM

There are pastel chalks and there are oil pastels. The chalks are exactly that. The oil pastels are more like a soft, oily crayon.

Can you tell me what the advantages or disadvantages are in using oil pastels?

RCH

10-05-2005, 03:46 AM

Can you tell me what the advantages or disadvantages are in using oil pastels?

David, I've only ever used them in a "fine art" capacity, working on heavy paper to make drawings. I don't have any experience using them for weathering. However, because of my experience with them I wouldn't use them for weathering. There are other mediums which, in my opinion, are superior to oil pastels.

If you want the flexibility of using oils (endless color possibilities, finely ground pigments, thin finish), then artists oils are superior to oil pastels. Artists oils can be applied to any surface with brushes or just about any other tool you can think of. Oil pastels would have to be ground into a paste to accomplish the same thing.

You can sharpen or shape oil pastels into a pen and mark directly on any surface with them, but their softness necessitates continuous sharpening and reshaping to keep them in a usable shape. Typically, you would rotate them in your grip as you draw with them (much in the same way you rotate a drafting pencil as you draw) to keep them shaped into a point, but given the precision required for weathering, especially in N scale, what works for a portrait or landscape drawing, might not work as well for drawing on rust streaks or spattered mud. However, if a pen is more your speed than a brush, you might have better success with colored pencils.

While the comparison between pastel chalks and oil pastel crayons might be the easiest to make, they are actually totally different mediums and do not behave in the same way. In other words, since most modelers who use pastel chalks for weathering grind them up into a powder, and this cannot be done easily (if at all) with oil pastel crayons, there really is no comparison.

A better comparison to pastel chalks would be weathering powders, such as those offered by AIM. Their weathering powders have an affixative blended into the powder, so when they go on, they stay on. While this aspect is appealing to many people, especially because pastel chalks have a tendency to "disappear" when you clear coat them, I am not comfortable without having the ability to undo any mistakes. I'd rather build up layers of chalk and "underweather" a model than put one too heavy application of weathering powder and "overweather" a model.

As I've more or less stated, my current methods involve oil paints and pastel chalks. Obviously, there are many methods and many folks who do exquisite work with other mediums, but these are the two that I like best. I use other techniques, too, and while I haven't tried everything, I've found a few things that work for me.

In this example, I mixed chalk with mineral spirits and dragged it downward from the roofwalk supports in an attempt to copy a prototype photo. I piled some ground chalk on parts of the roofwalk and wet it with mineral spirits to get a chunky glob effect to simulate the nasty, rotting chunks of spilled grain that collect under the roofwalks and around the hatches. I also airbrushed the grime "spray" that seems to collect on the underframe using enamels. When I get this model back out of storage, I'd like to spend some more time on the underframe to get it away from looking so plain. But, it's a good illustration of the chalk/mineral spirits technique, so here it is:

http://www.pbase.com/mecrharris/image/43571176/original.jpg

This model shows artists oils painted directly on the model. For rust spots, I paint the lightest shades first then build the rust spot toward the center using progressively darker shades. Many of the rust spots are actually real rust, embellished with paint. For the real rust, I took steel shavings and sprinkled them over the model after I spritzed it with a 50-50 mixutre of hydrogen peroxide and water. I stored the model in an airtight bin, opening it daily to mist it again. I did that for about two weeks until some pretty good rust spots appeared. I also applied titanium white directly from the tube onto the carbody to tone the whole car down a bit. I worked the paint with a large hogshair brush until the paint was spread evenly but nearly gone leaving a whitish cast, which seems to simulate the dusty appearance of some prototype cars. Also, it's worth mentioning that on this car, I painted the insides of the stirrups a dark brown/black color to make them appear thinner. It seemed to work well, so I've started doing it on all my cars.

http://www.pbase.com/mecrharris/image/46942937/large.jpg

This model was weathered using 1000 grit sandpaper (to remove the lettering) and chalks. It's a pretty straightforward weathering job, but for as little effort as I put into it, it looks the part.

http://www.pbase.com/mecrharris/image/43571161/original.jpg

I hope this gives you some ideas of what can be done with a very simple palette of materials and colors. If I can suggest anything, it's that you try everything until one method "speaks" to you. Master that method and then you can apply what you learn from it to any other method.

dthurman

10-05-2005, 03:54 AM

Great reply Ryan! I use artists oils for paint, I like the way they thin much better then the acrylics, and placing oils on top of chalk is the way to go. Those are some superb weathering jobs. My hat off to you. I have been using the clear parts cement from testors with some decent reults, but it goes on too thick for my tastes. I was told over at the modeltrainsweathered forum to place the bottle in some warm/hot water similar to what others do with Dullcote.

You definately answered my question on oil pastels, glad I didn't waste the $$ at HobbyLobby the other day when I was looking at them.

Thanks

modelbob

10-05-2005, 03:56 AM

Duplicate image for "featured discussions" promo

dthurman

10-05-2005, 04:05 AM

Duplicate image for "featured discussions" promo

Modelbob, what's "featured discussions" promo?

grande man

10-05-2005, 02:29 PM

look on the banner up top on the front page. there is a photo listed with a link to this thread.

That's a nice showcase of current thread examples for someone surfing. It's a visual indication for them to stay and talk some trains with us. An invitation of sorts.

dthurman

10-05-2005, 02:30 PM

look on the banner up top on the front page. there is a photo listed with a link to this thread.

Ah! I see I have a lot to learn on how the forum works, which so far is fantastic! I had wondered what the red sign meant on the top right of each post also and learned it's use too, very well thought out and snappy.

Thanks Hyrail

grande man

10-05-2005, 02:36 PM

Can you tell me what the advantages or disadvantages are in using oil pastels?

I'm glad you asked about the oil pastels. I wondered about them last time I was at Hobby Lobby.

I'll save the $$$ to put on their great selection of standard pastels next time we're in there.

Thanks Ryan and David.

RCH

10-05-2005, 04:45 PM

dthurman

10-05-2005, 05:04 PM

No problem. Just in case you're interested in the weathering powders I mentioned, you can get them, along with a whole lot of information on weathering, here:

http://www.modeltrainsweathered.com/weatheringproducts.htm

Just go to http://www.modeltrainsweathered.com/forum/ for the discussion forum.

Your right ryan, Rich's site has to be one of the best weathering sites on line or least that I am aware of, I know there are some Yahoo groups, there are some great/intimidating weatherers on that board. I only wish it was more active, seems to go in spurts. Mellow-Mike also has some pages on his site that he shows some very good closeups of details that are important on weathering. I also agree that a person should do their weathering from an actual photo to make sure they are following mother natures method of weathering ;)

I have a whole workbench full of coal gondolas, containers, boxcars and a few cov hoppers wating for the honors of getting real-world fixed. I find the weathering to be very relaxing and theraputic (sp) to do. Though N scale can be a challange. Can't wait for the day when we move, get that big back yard for the G layout. I am hoping by then all the G stuff will be built with actual stamped thin walled steel and just throw some rock salt on them, little bleach and get some real weathering action :)

RCH

10-05-2005, 06:19 PM

I hear that, David! Man, the large scale stuff would be outta sight to work on. The best part about Rich's site is that most of the people there have only been doing the weathering thing for a short time. Their progress is inspiring. And humbling, since I've been doing this stuff for 15 years and I see stuff that blows my work away!

I mentioned above that I primarily use artists oils for weathering. I think people tend to be shy of trying them, maybe because they can be expensive, the selection of paints and oils and thinning and thickening mediums is vast, and many people seem to be intimidated by them just because they don’t consider themselves an “artist.” Well, they really aren’t that expensive once you realize that they don’t dry up before you’ve used half the tube and one tube will last you forever! Brushes are one thing I wouldn’t skimp on, but a good brush will outlast five cheap ones, so over time it’s not very expensive to acquire a few good brushes. I use odorless mineral spirits to thin oils and clean my brushes and a bottle of that stuff is cheap and will also last for quite some time, too.

If anyone wishes to give artists oils a try, I suggest using the following colors to start your palette off:

Titanium White 200ml tube $12.70
Yellow Ochre 37ml tube $5.20
Cadmium Red Hue 37ml tube $5.20
Cadmium Yellow Hue 37ml tube $5.20
Ivory Black 37ml tube $5.20
Burnt Sienna 37ml tube $5.20
Burnt Umber 37ml tube $5.20
Raw Sienna 37ml tube $5.20
Raw Umber 37ml tube $5.20

Virtually any rust, mud, grease or dust color can be created with these colors. I use Windsor and Newton “Winton” oils, which are relatively inexpensive. Even when I paint on canvas, I’m under no illusion that I’m painting a masterpiece that needs to stand the test of time, so any money spent on oils that will last 500 years is wasted. ;) The prices shown are the list prices, but you can get a substantial discount buying them through an online outlet like DickBlick.

One thing I really found useful about oils is the “undo” time you get. They don’t dry right away, so if you don’t like what you’ve done, you can just wipe it off. I make plenty of mistakes, so this is probably the one characteristic of oils that sold me. They also go on any surface pretty well, too, unlike some other mediums which just won’t stick to certain finishes. When I was in college, I usually painted on canvas or masonite, but I also painted on sheet steel and aluminum with great success.

Here’s something a friend of mine (and modeling guru) suggested the other night, which I have yet to try, but it makes perfect sense: if you paint with acrylics, seal the model then weather with oils, that way the weathering process will not adversely affect the finish underneath. If you paint with solvents, weather with acrylics. I usually paint with solvents, but this logic is what’s going to push me to the “dark side” and force me to start using acrylics. That, and the fact that nearly all my solvent paints are dried up. ;)

For brushes I have a selection of small brushes, medium brushes and large brushes. I like hogshair brushes for large brushes and I use dense sable hair watercolor brushes for my small and medium brushes. They hold their shape, keep the paint on the outside of the brush instead of loading it and they seem to last forever (and believe me, I am the destroyer of brushes).

I tend to use the large brushes for applying the paint to the models, usually by stippling the model’s roof to get really irregular patterns of rust. I use the medium brushes (flat, chisel style brushes) for blending, like when I’m trying to mute the overall color of the model and I use the small brushes for detail work.

Really, though, there are no hard and fast rules. I came up with my techniques by experimenting and just messing around. I’d just like to suggest to anyone who is curious about using oils that you jump in and give them a try. You can even start as minimally as buying four tubes – the umbers and the siennas – a brush and some mineral spirits. The freedom you’ll have to do rust with those four colors is really exciting and will likely get you back into the store to grab the other colors and maybe a few more brushes.

Anyway, I hope some of you find this informative at the very least.

Happy Weathering!

SpaceMouse

10-06-2005, 04:54 PM

dthurman

10-06-2005, 05:23 PM

I use both Chip, I think it depends on what effect you are after. I think I will try again with some acrylics and see if I can thin them better. Maybe someone can tell us what they use to thin with besides water?

SpaceMouse

10-06-2005, 05:26 PM

dthurman

10-06-2005, 05:27 PM

I have heard about that. I read one person uses Vodka :O

SpaceMouse

10-06-2005, 05:28 PM

I have heard about that. I read one person uses Vodka :O

I wouldn't get much done. :D

dthurman

10-06-2005, 05:30 PM

I would be worried that people may start to lick my cars...

SpaceMouse

10-06-2005, 05:32 PM

Spray the rail heads.

dthurman

10-06-2005, 05:33 PM

That's rather a shocking idea ;)

SpaceMouse

10-06-2005, 05:54 PM

That's rather a shocking idea ;)

I was thinking of having the power off. I hate cleaning track.

dthurman

10-06-2005, 05:58 PM

I thought you meant it was a way to teach the car lickers a lesson.

As for track cleaning, you really should think about the MAAS or Mothers chrome polish. I swear by it now. Doing N scale and with all my track, I got tired of loading a Centerline cleaning car or the Brightboy eraser.

Sorry for getting off topic, but I guess it fits, never know when that dust from weathering will hit the rails.

SpaceMouse

10-06-2005, 06:07 PM

Okay, Back on target. I thought my first project would be to weather some ore cars used in a silver mine. It will be 1880's and I have no pictures. I figure it will be well beaten as the mine is marginal. They will be tipple fed so scratches and rust inside and dust and rust outside. Here's the three cars I am talking about (sorry they were not the intended subject of the photos). What would you do?

http://www.vitaconnect.com/photos/climax05.jpg

RCH

10-06-2005, 06:14 PM

Rich,

I heard Daves reply about acrylics not thinning as well, but what is your opinion on using acrylics for weathering. I have been pretty much using acrylics exclusively and find I can acheive just about any color/consistancy I need.

I guess I am concerned about clean-up and drying time. I have far more projects than I have time to complete. I hesitate to add additional time for "non-prodcutive" parts of the process.

Is this directed to me? I see the connection of my initials (RCH) to the name Rich and I don't think there's anyone here named Rich, but if this question isn't for me, forgive me for stepping out of line. :o

I don't know what to tell anyone about using acrylics, since the last time I used them was in high school. I used the defunct Polly S line of paints, hated them, threw them away, and started over with solvents. I understand most people are using acrylics these days, so that's what I meant by going to the dark side. Still haven't even tried them again in 15 years.

As to the clean-up and drying time, I have so many cars to do and so little time (I have two girls, 2 and 3 years old - enough said!) that there's no way I can get even one done in a single sitting unless I'm up until 2 am. The dry time is a factor in that, so I work on a few at a time. I'll usually start with the ends or the roof, since ends are a pain for me and the roof sets the tone of the model. I will get that portion of the group of cars I'm working on done at that sitting, which usually lasts an hour or so. The next day I can get started on the sides or the underframe, leave them to dry until the next day, and so on.

I do not thin my paint at all and I put the paint on very thin and dry. Because of this, the normal "wait a week" approach you'd have to take with oils doesn't occur. The paint is often dry, or has a "skin," within a couple hours. Still, you wouldn't want to handle the car by the painted area less than a day after you've done anything on it. I'm sure just about anyone could do an entire car with acrylics in a sitting, because you can handle it almost right away. The fact that I can't handle the car right away doesn't really affect me because I don't work fast enough that it's a consideration. So, any "down time" due to drying doesn't exist for me anyway, because once I have covered all the accessible parts of a model that I can without interfering with handling it, I just move on to the next model.

I think it's worth mentioning here that I am of the mindset that I get out everything that needs a particular shade of rust at the same time, mix up the paint, and apply it to each model. I do the same thing when I paint with the airbrush. If I'm loading the brush with reefer orange, you better believe I will track down everything that needs a shot of reefer orange! Of course, I make spreadsheets to keep track of this sort of thing, so I'm a total geek, I know... :o

As far as the clean-up is concerned, I had a serious problem with the clean-up involved in using acrylics, which is why I stopped using them (ruined a few brushes and clogged my airbrush), so based on my experience, the clean-up with oils is quick and easy compared to acrylics. With the acrylic formulations folks are using today, I'll bet the clean-up compares favorably with oils. In fact, I'll make a pledge to stop referencing acrylics as if it's 1989 right here, right now! I promise I will try them! Still, I'm not sure I can bring myself to use them for weathering, only base painting per my Guru's recommendation!

Sorry for the filibuster! I need sleep... I was up until 2 am working on my billboard project. I can't imagine doing something like that in N scale. You N scale guys get my respect!

Railphotog

10-06-2005, 06:22 PM

I posted this on another forum, thought I'd give it a try here too. When is weathering done too much????

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/railfan/Weathered.jpg

dthurman

10-06-2005, 06:24 PM

SpaceMouse

10-06-2005, 06:27 PM

Is this directed to me? I see the connection of my initials (RCH) to the name Rich and I don't think there's anyone here named Rich, but if this question isn't for me, forgive me for stepping out of line. :o

I don't know what to tell anyone about using acrylics, since the last time I used them was in high school. I used the defunct Polly S line of paints, hated them, threw them away, and started over with solvents. I understand most people are using acrylics these days, so that's what I meant by going to the dark side. Still haven't even tried them again in 15 years.

As to the clean-up and drying time, I have so many cars to do and so little time (I have two girls, 2 and 3 years old - enough said!) that there's no way I can get even one done in a single sitting unless I'm up until 2 am. The dry time is a factor in that, so I work on a few at a time. I'll usually start with the ends or the roof, since ends are a pain for me and the roof sets the tone of the model. I will get that portion of the group of cars I'm working on done at that sitting, which usually lasts an hour or so. The next day I can get started on the sides or the underframe, leave them to dry until the next day, and so on.

I do not thin my paint at all and I put the paint on very thin and dry. Because of this, the normal "wait a week" approach you'd have to take with oils doesn't occur. The paint is often dry, or has a "skin," within a couple hours. Still, you wouldn't want to handle the car by the painted area less than a day after you've done anything on it. I'm sure just about anyone could do an entire car with acrylics in a sitting, because you can handle it almost right away. The fact that I can't handle the car right away doesn't really affect me because I don't work fast enough that it's a consideration. So, any "down time" due to drying doesn't exist for me anyway, because once I have covered all the accessible parts of a model that I can without interfering with handling it, I just move on to the next model.

I think it's worth mentioning here that I am of the mindset that I get out everything that needs a particular shade of rust at the same time, mix up the paint, and apply it to each model. I do the same thing when I paint with the airbrush. If I'm loading the brush with reefer orange, you better believe I will track down everything that needs a shot of reefer orange! Of course, I make spreadsheets to keep track of this sort of thing, so I'm a total geek, I know... :o

As far as the clean-up is concerned, I had a serious problem with the clean-up involved in using acrylics, which is why I stopped using them (ruined a few brushes and clogged my airbrush), so based on my experience, the clean-up with oils is quick and easy compared to acrylics. With the acrylic formulations folks are using today, I'll bet the clean-up compares favorably with oils. In fact, I'll make a pledge to stop referencing acrylics as if it's 1989 right here, right now! I promise I will try them! Still, I'm not sure I can bring myself to use them for weathering, only base painting per my Guru's recommendation!

Sorry for the filibuster! I need sleep... I was up until 2 am working on my billboard project. I can't imagine doing something like that in N scale. You N scale guys get my respect!

Sorry RYAN (I'll get it right now),

I mentioned my wife is a pro artist. She has gone to acrylics lately because she feels that they are now good enough to rival oils and are easier to work with. As for the issues you mentioned, I can't compare with 1989 acryllics. I know that cleaning my brush is a matter of rinsing in water--even if they have sat awhile because of something bonehead i did. I have clogged my airbrush with them, but I'm so green with airbrushes that I blamed operator error at the time. They certainly thin easily with window waher fluid.

SpaceMouse

10-06-2005, 06:37 PM

Thanks Ryan! How do you get a dry brush effect with oils? I should clarify, I am wondering are you talking about artist oils? Or Floquil paints?

Chip, surely there has to be some sites out there, even if it is more modern in the timeline that has some pictures of ore jennies. The engine looks pretty good, well great and again I find if I can work from a picture, I sort of know how mother nature and the RR elements effect a car for weathering. Is the silver mine material more of a black or grey? I wouldn't imagine it to be silver?

You know, the silver mine was an after thought on my 4 x 8, and I don't know what silver ore looks like.

FYI: That engine was done entirely with artist acrylics. Here a shot of the other side.

http://www.vitaconnect.com/photos/climax02.jpg

dthurman

10-06-2005, 06:53 PM

Chip, you got my interest up on what an ore jenny would look like, and I can see why you don't have any pictures of a silver mine, I googled and came up pretty emtpy on pictures, but lots of text.

I did find this web site that has pictures of the little mine cars, you may be able to use them as a reference of what to do to the ore cars

http://www.goldrush.com/~kreissb/phil/photos.html

RCH

10-06-2005, 07:43 PM

Thanks Ryan! How do you get a dry brush effect with oils? I should clarify, I am wondering are you talking about artist oils? Or Floquil paints?

Artists oils. I can't imagine trying to drybrush with Floquil. Even when your brush is "wet" it feels dry with Floquil.

I think using the oils directly from the tube (not thinning or conditioning them in any way) helps, along with using dense sable brushes. Since the brushes don't load paint, you don't get much on there. Once you put the paint on the model, you can work it around until it gets thin enough to give just a haze effect.

RCH

10-06-2005, 08:27 PM

Sorry RYAN (I'll get it right now),

No sweat, I just wanted to make sure it was me you were asking! With all the new members here I can't really say I know everybody anymore. At least not yet.

I mentioned my wife is a pro artist. She has gone to acrylics lately because she feels that they are now good enough to rival oils and are easier to work with.

That's what I keep hearing. I'm finally coming around to the idea of using them. It's just one of those cases of "once bitten, twice shy." Pretty cool you have a pro close by. I'll bet you've got the color wheel down pat!

As for the issues you mentioned, I can't compare with 1989 acryllics. I know that cleaning my brush is a matter of rinsing in water--even if they have sat awhile because of something bonehead i did.

Okay, now you have my attention! This is what I've been most concerned about. I'd hate to have to replace another airbrush due to having to rush off to change a diaper or catch the girls at the end of the slide or something like that (I'm always getting interrupted - and happily so - in all my extracurricular activities with Dad duty).

I have clogged my airbrush with them, but I'm so green with airbrushes that I blamed operator error at the time. They certainly thin easily with window waher fluid.

Well, I've clogged my airbrush at least a hundred times with solvent paints. I can't blame it on anything except being in a hurry or being too lazy to do the job right. I've even clogged a paint cup, too. That's something no amount of lacquer thinner can fix!

uspscsx

10-06-2005, 10:13 PM

Here's a thread SpaceMouse started regarding weathering tools.

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2458

uspscsx

10-06-2005, 10:28 PM

Here's a tip: Unless you plan on representing a replacement part(I.E. A new door on a box car, a new brakewheel, etc.), do all detailing prior to weathering. This works for me.

Another thing: Have PLENTY of paper towels around whenever you're weathering with paint. That's how I do most of my weathering with paint; I simply overcoat slightly, then dab off what I don't want. It does great for me.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to finish replying to Griff(A.K.A. MRG76 on eBay)'s e-mail.

SpaceMouse

10-06-2005, 10:45 PM

Pretty cool you have a pro close by. I'll bet you've got the color wheel down pat!

You got that right, but it's more like,

"Babe, what do I mix with this to get a color like that."

"Can you show me :rolleyes:"

SpaceMouse

10-06-2005, 10:47 PM

uspscsx

10-07-2005, 01:09 AM

Here is what I usually use for weathering:

Paint thinner.
Oil-based paints(Haven't used them yet, but I plan on getting some.) I'll use them for rust patches. You have to admit: SOME rusty areas just don't look textured.
Rubber cement. Used for replicating peeling paint. See MrKluke's thread on a BN/CB&Q hopper over on The Railwire to see how it's used.
Either a stiff piece of cardboard or a small piece of plastic. Used for puddling hairspray to dip brushes/cosmetic sponges into...which brings me to my next item.
Cosmetic sponges! Used for textured rust and/or "splashes" of rust/grime/oil/whatever else. See modeltrainsweathered.com for the "rust" method.
Testors Clear Parts and Window Maker Cement
A ton of brushes(You might want to use seperate brushes for chalks and for paints...although I admit to using one for the other..)
Various paints. I ALWAYS have Polly Scale Rust, Polly Scale Grimy Black, and Polly Scale Oily Black. (Oily black REALLY does leave an oily appearance-Perfect for trucks/wheelsets!)
Testors' Model Master Model Cement(For when I break a stirrup ;))
A FEW colored pencils(They work!) Usually only colors like variaties of brown, black, and sometimes a blue or red...depending on what I'm working on.
Testors Dullcote! The stuff WORKS!
Water...for obvious reasons.
Pump Hairspray(Meaning NON-Aerosol)
Screwdrivers to remove trucks and couplers.
Various colors of chalk. (Right now I have a color for everything!)
An XACTO-My favorite "fading tool!"
Gel Pens(For graffiti)
Forgot to mention this above: Containers for storing chalk.
Alcohol(The rubbing variety;)) I don't drink anyway..
Artist Crayons-Perfect for rust streaks and highlighting areas!
PAPER TOWELS-You will NEED them, trust me.
Microbrushes-I can't weather without one.
Sand paper/Sandpaper(However you prefer to spell it) Useful in SOME cases for fading.

uspscsx

10-07-2005, 03:23 AM

To add to above:

Masking tape.
See-through tape.
Toothpicks
Prototype photo(s) if necessary.
A good desk lamp!
And one final thing: A television with football/baseball/basketball on the screen!

I HOPE this is it! Sheesh, now I see why my weathering desk is so crowded! ;)

uspscsx

10-07-2005, 03:31 AM

Oh wait, my TV isn't on my desk...

uspscsx

10-08-2005, 05:17 AM

Here's another tip: Always keep your weathering desk clean and tidy. It can help a lot, trust me.

uspscsx

10-08-2005, 05:17 AM

Also, a STIFF brush works best for applying chalks.

dthurman

10-08-2005, 05:21 AM

Here's another tip: Always keep your weathering desk clean and tidy. It can help a lot, trust me.

LOL! I am lucky to get to my keyboard...

uspscsx

10-08-2005, 05:23 AM

WHOA! We could play an I Spy game with that! :p

Steve B

10-08-2005, 04:08 PM

I have used the Woodland Scenics earth tones for weathering, they were sat around so i thought i would give them a try, i used black, burnt umber, white mainly. I also used an Instant Rust product from the local DIY store, you paint on a goopy base coat thenwhen it's dried apply the top coat, it then goes rusty overnight, the product goes on working for months giving a very old rusty look to anything you put it on, even plastic Atlas bridges
these are some of the things i used the above mixture on
http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL859/3311461/7194129/101135771.jpg
http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL859/3311461/7194129/95900270.jpg
http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL859/3311461/7194129/94186465.jpg
http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL859/3311461/7194129/105238522.jpg

uspscsx

10-08-2005, 05:48 PM

Once again, the wreck in the river looks great! Now that I notice the bridge being weathered, I gotta give you 5 stars on that as well! And the BN hopper looks pretty good as well.

Overall, I give you two thumbs up. :)

uspscsx

10-08-2005, 08:28 PM

TIP: You know those little placemats kids have? Y'know, the ones with those "fun" games on them? Those work great to weather on if you are not in a "protected' environment. It may get a little tricky using paints, but for chalks/powders, it works great! I have a weathering desk, but I still use these, as they work great.

uspscsx

10-08-2005, 08:41 PM

TIP: When using pump hairspray and chalk to create rust streaks or patches, you usually want to dip your cosmetic sponge or whatever you're using into the puddle of hairspray, then cover the wet area of the sponge with chalk. Depending on how you use it, it can create an effect like this:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/PA141302.jpg
Or this:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/csxwatcher/Weathered%20Models/P9301194.jpg
The above was done by lightly dabbing it around the edges of the car. It has since been removed, and will be redone. The picture at top was done by dabbing it all down the side of the car. The top rust effects were created by "over-weathering" the car a little bit, then taking a wet paper towel and washing away the rust into the effect shown.

More tips to come, so stay tuned.

NOTE: All above photos copyright (©)Appalachian Weathering and Modelworks

uspscsx

10-08-2005, 08:47 PM

Steve B

10-08-2005, 10:00 PM

uspscsx

10-08-2005, 10:48 PM

Chears Matt, i have only been doing this for 3 years and have learned a lot in that time, when i look in British mags the tecniques are very dated or they seem to be after looking through MR and the Forums, when the wife saw me attack the alco she thought i had gone nuts, but she can now see why i did it and likes it.
I don't think you listed what you use to weather...if you did, could you point me in the right direction, but if not, what do you use?

I'm still drooling over that Alco.;)

uspscsx

10-08-2005, 10:48 PM

Oh, I see where you listed your weathering supplies.

dthurman

10-09-2005, 12:03 AM

TIP: A "cote" of Dullcote before using chalks helps the chalk "stick" to the surface. Chalks need something with "tooth" to grab onto. A coat of Dullcote gives the car the needed surface for chalk to stick to.

More to come.

The only problem I had with Dullcote on the car first is when I used oils and thinner, I got that cloud effect like you do with rubbing alcohol. I was a little perturbed when that happened, so I just covered the hopper with more chalk. You are right though, it does give a better bite for chalk. I think I need to pre-game each car I am weathering and decide if it's a chalk job and acrylics or an oil and thinner job. Just something I had happen, it could be the type of thinner I used.

uspscsx

10-09-2005, 12:47 AM

The only problem I had with Dullcote on the car first is when I used oils and thinner, I got that cloud effect like you do with rubbing alcohol. I was a little perturbed when that happened, so I just covered the hopper with more chalk. You are right though, it does give a better bite for chalk. I think I need to pre-game each car I am weathering and decide if it's a chalk job and acrylics or an oil and thinner job. Just something I had happen, it could be the type of thinner I used.
I've heard that another layer of Dullcote will clear that up. I've never had the problem, so I don't know from personal experience.

dthurman

10-10-2005, 02:22 AM

I just finished this CNW GP50, side A came out better then side B :mad:

I did it with PollyScale paints. Talk about a pain trying to get a brush to put paint where you want to have it go.

uspscsx

10-10-2005, 02:30 AM

David, that isn't half bad. I've actually seen a locomotive with a burnt section right near your black/brown rusty area. And that roof looks just plain faded. Looks like that GP38-2 that's working the yard...Blue with white faded areas.(CSX). It looks like a locomotive that's done its share of work, and that's a good thing. But the trucks are fantastic. One more item of interest: You have a rust streak on the nose on one side...dunno which though. That seems to be a common thing on all 4-axle EMD hood units. Don't know why, but it's interesting to model. The noses are always rusted out for some reason...

uspscsx

10-10-2005, 02:33 AM

Quick question: Drybrushing, washes...what?

uspscsx

10-10-2005, 02:41 AM

Well, the WC bummed out on me. A mere $1.77 on eBay. Although, I look back and see why some people were critical about it. But then again, I haven't seen some of them weathering anything and trying to sell it on eBay.:mad: In fact, some of them haven't ever weathered anything. Oh well, the Railbox is looking good. I'll hopefully kick rear-end with it on eBay:p:D. I think I'll go post a pic of that Railbox over on Rich Divizio's forum, and see what they have to say.

dthurman

10-10-2005, 02:42 AM

Matt

I worked from some GP50 CNW pictures. They all seemed to be pretty rusty at the engineers side by the battery box. One photo had some major filth near the from filters (not sure if that's where the turbo is or not, I thought I read somewhere that CNW didn't do turbos for a time. I did drybrush, plus some reg paint, then did a wash with water and paper towel to suck it up. Your right, the trucks came out far better then I expected. It is dedicated as a siding sitter ;) for when the coal trains pull threw and need some additional power, but not sure why 2 SD80 Macs would ever need any help, when an SD40-2 is running DPU on the rear :)

I wanted to try a dry brush and paint weathering job on an engine, I normally use chalks for them, which I think I get better results. Now the next attempt will be both, and try and duplicate the truck effect. I have some scale chains I need to start mounting on the engines. I just need a N scale hand and welder now.

dthurman

10-12-2005, 03:36 AM

Per Matt's request here is the latest weathering job I did. It's a Kato SD40-2 Union Pacific N scale engine.

I first went and scoured the railroad photos here and at Railpictures.net to get a good sampling of UP SD's and the various states of dirt and grung they all seemed to have accumulated. I also wanted som close ups of the trucks to see if I could duplicate the oil and grease in them.

I had the night before used my airbrush and sprayed it with PollyScale Flat Finish. After using it the other day I really like it better then Dullcote, 1. no fumes, 2. it dries a lot faster and 3. I don't think I will get that clouding I would get if I use an achohol was with india ink someday.

I left the engine apart from the shell, and used dry brushing of Pollyscale Dirt/Mud/Dust for the dirty areas. I then used Pollyscale Tarnished Black and Grimy Black for the fans and filter areas (I need to add some more to the back air intakes I noticed) and first used the tarnish on the tip of my smaller brush, and then dipped it in water, and dabbed it on a paper towel t get some of the paint off, and then painted the fans and filters. I then did the same with the grimy black. I also used some ModelMaster Flat White to paint the handrails, and used the PS mud on the walkway, I dabbed the mud on a paper towel also, and then just straight down and just poked the walkway to get a walked on effect. Not easy to see in the pictures, but it added a nice effect. I also dry brushed down from the sides with mud and dirt for that unwashed effect that UP is good at ;) and then took some grimy black and diluted that and washed the from low hood and the top of the cab and behind it. I thne made sure the brush was dry-drier and went back over the grimy black again to sontrol the effect on the low hood and cab. I also dry brushed dirt and mud along the side sills of the walkway.

I let everything dry on the separated shell and worked on the trucks, I used Tarnish Black as the base and then dry brushed the trucks with Grimy Black, Dirt and Mud. After those dried, I took oily black and hit the truck journals to get that grease look.

After everything was dry, I took black, yellow, and brown chalks and just added them according to the grouping of pictures I had, I also hit the "newly painted" handrails with black lightly to get that dirt look on them. I next used black on the low hood and the cab and cab sides starting at the top and going down, I took the brown chalk and went up on the cab sides. I next dusted the fans and filters to get a soot effect. I used the yellow to add a fade effect to the UP yellow.

Then I just put it all together and added another unit to the coal drags that serve the West Presence Power Gas & Light Company :)