Layout Plans Influenced By Forum Posts

[CBCNSfan]

Hi all, well I followed Bill Kosanda's thread Layout Extension In Work because I found it very interesting. Just around his last posts, I began noticing the ground cover and how different it was from mine, not the colouring, but the unevenness of his terrain. Looking at mine I decided it was boring, it was far too linear too flat and unrealistic. Needless to say it now has more lumps than a toad with the mumps. While my layout was getting it's lumps :D. I wondered if others were influenced in a similar way as I was, by others posting their work.
Usually I ask questions before doing, but this time I didn't have to ask , the answer was already there.

Cheers Willis

[JeffShultz]

I think that posts here and elsewhere were what got me looking towards using foam instead of a cookie-cutter approach on my layout.

[sushob]

Well, I can only wish for a layout on which to try all of the wonderful techniques, tips, tricks, methods, and creative ideas that I read about on here, but all of the info I've read has certainly educated me. I've gone from a 'model-ignorant' teenager to a 'slightly-model-educated' teenager :D Thanks again for all the info guys! And thanks for making it available ModelBob!

[emt49]

Hi all, well I followed Bill Kosanda's thread Layout Extension In Work because I found it very interesting. Just around his last posts, I began noticing the ground cover and how different it was from mine, not the colouring, but the unevenness of his terrain. Looking at mine I decided it was boring, it was far too linear too flat and unrealistic. Needless to say it now has more lumps than a toad with the mumps. While my layout was getting it's lumps :D. I wondered if others were influenced in a similar way as I was, by others posting their work.
Usually I ask questions before doing, but this time I didn't have to ask , the answer was already there.

Cheers Willis


and were are the pics of your work ;) lol

[CBCNSfan]

and were are the pics of your work lol
Well work's far from finished but I'll take a couple of pics tonight, iff'n yuh tinks yer ready fer it, the camera needs a bit of a work out now, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/nibbs/Camerasmiley.gif it's been sitting on the scanner for ages :D
Cheers Willis

[CBCNSfan]

Ok heres a few pics. Remember all topography was fairly smooth. Along the upper tracks it was a uniform size and kind of rounded off. More changes to do yet but it's coming
#1 This was a steep slope and not even close to the track, built out with more styrofoam and lumps and rock work added
#2 At the summit you can see where more lumps were added to the flat area.
#3 Rockwork being added to the linear background, lot's more to do here.
#4 This area is only 2 inches deep from the tracks to the wall, As it also was on a curve I thought some rugged looking rockwork would set it off. When the tallus and bushes are added I hope I'll get the effect of depth I want.
Cheers Willis

[emt49]

lookin good

how come you havent covers you track to keep it from getting messy

[modelbob]

You're going to want to shoot me, but...

Here's another suggestion for you.

The tunnel next to the trestle bothers me a bit. Trestles are expensive, and a pain to maintain. Railroads avoid them like the plague, only building one if they really have to. How about a really deep, and really narrow, ravine just in front of the tunnel. They'd have no choice but to build a bridge. You'd also have a small bridge (maybe a stone arch?) right in front of the tunnel. Another one on the track to the right would give this stream someplace to go.

The stream should be decent size, and look like it gets big at times, so it's believable that it carved this notch.

Here's a rough (very rough, took about 5 minutes) idea of how it would look.

[CBCNSfan]

http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/shoot8.gif Hmmmm! kind of thought about that before and didn't think it was feasible for some reason. It's been quite awhile since I did that trestle. Might be worth looking into again, I liked the concept of a river through there, I know the bridges are doable where the main and the spur are but under the trestle I don't know! I'll have to have a look and see how the trestle is supported. Anyway here is an earlier broad side look.
Cheers Willis

[modelbob]

OK, first of all, if the tunnel portal is that far to the right of the trestle, then it's fine. It looks a LOT tighter in the oher photo (or maybe you moved it, I'm not sure which...) In any case, where it's at in that photo looks like it would work fine. All I was suggesting is that there be a gap before the cliff the tunnel entered.

Secondly, the trestle is also fine just as it is. You can easily have the stream running under the bridge. It doesn't have to be huge, it can just be a narrow channel with a rushing stream. So it would work just fine, as is, with no changes.

However, if you wanted to create a really big, rushing stream, you could modify it like this.

(I'd make it turn to the left a bit, and then maybe curl back behind the rocks so it doesn't look like it just ends.)

[modelbob]

PS - With a stream, instead of a river, you wouldn't need to change anything under the trestle. You could leave the bottom where it is there, and then have a small waterfall or rapids, to get it below the level of the other two tracks. It would also be easier to make a stream dissapear. Have it curving to the left and go into a notch between the rocks, implying it curves back to the right and disappears from sight. No need to try and blend a river into the backdrop, which is usually quite hard to make look good.

A stream would also mean smaller bridges on the other two tracks. As I suggested earlier, maybe a small stone arch in front of the tunnel. (Not sure why, but I like that idea...) Either of the other two bridges could be just about any kind you want in actuality, trestles, through truss bridge, deck girder, stone, whatever.

[CBCNSfan]

Hi Bob, yes the stream would be feasible, and I like the idea but as it's somewhat of a delicate situation I'd like to get mor ideas on how it could be done. I'm attaching a photo of a stream under a prototype just down the road from me. I also took a pic last night of where the stream would have to go to avoid cutting 3/4" ply thats splicing the road bed together. However I have some concerns with putting a scroll saw on it as it will cause a lot of vibration with the possibility of damaging the rock work. the rock work in front of the longest bents can be broken away easiely to provide for a small waterfall. However I doubt any construction around a stream would leave the bents without protection from the moving water. Any suggestions or ideas will be appreciated. I have more pics of the construction stored somewhere and I look for them
Cheers Willis

[CBCNSfan]

how come you havent covers you track to keep it from getting messy Honestly, I don't know. I know I should, and afterwards I'm sorry I didn't. I guess it's like waving the red flag in front of a bull when I get an idea. Single track mind I guess :D
Cheers Willis

[emt49]

are both tracks on the wood top or is the one comming out of the tunnle higher?


if the upper track is higher you could cut out part of it in front of the tunnel and put in a bridge than raise the lower track bridge that . or for the lower track you could cut into the wood a inch or two in front of the upper track
(as if the bridge was there) and make a small water fall then bridge the hole over your lowerd bench work (river bed)

[CBCNSfan]

are both tracks on the wood top or is the one comming out of the tunnle higher? Yes the tracks on the wood top are much higher than the one coming out of the tunnel.

The track coming out of the tunnel is something I don't want to disturb as it is the mainline and actually on a curve. However the supporting sub roadbed could be cut away up close to the track and the sides from a plate girder bridge could be attached, similar to photo.

The sub roadbed in most of that area cannot be cut into two as there would be no risers to support the cut ends.
Cheers Willis

[modelbob]

Willis,

Something like you show should work fine. The stream/creek can be pretty small, it doesn't have to be a river. Rapids and/or waterfalls can be used to make it chage levels quickly to accomodate your benchwork issues. They'll also add interest, and imply that it is a rapidly flowing stream as opposed to a small pond or simply water pooling in a ditch.

I think your ideas will look great!

[modelbob]

PS - What about encasing the couple of bents that will be in the stream in styrene or a plaster casting to represent a concrete or stone footing. It could be short, just enough to stick up a little ways, basically just where it can be seen.

Or for that matter leave it as is and use something to create water. While it's not the best practice, there are certainly lots of wooden trestles with a small stream under them and nothing to protect the bents. I'd say that was actually quite common. Add a small layer or resin or whatever you're using for water and call it good. :)

[wpgrailfan]

If you have access to a router, this may solve the problem of cutting into your board. With a little bit of paint and plaster, you can make a 1/2" groove look like feet under the stream.

[CBCNSfan]

If you have access to a router, this may solve the problem of cutting into your board. With a little bit of paint and plaster, you can make a 1/2" groove look like feet under the stream.
Hi Marc
Hmm! too bad I hadn't checked earlier, Yep I have three routers, But too late for that.

Ok Bob the deed is done, how deep would you like the Go''''' Gorge :D Note in the tunnel the liner is missing, broke right off with the vibration, could have been worse I guess. Anyway lots of room for falls, deep gorge, fast running river ect, no more sawing though, had to relay the track into the tunnel.
Cheers Willis

[galt904]

Nice work! That scene will look pretty sweet when completed. :)

[CBCNSfan]

That scene will look pretty sweet when completed. Hi Galt, I'm open to suggestions to complete it, as far as scenery goes I'm a novice at it.
Cheers Willis

[galt904]

You already have some scenery, so you're ahead of me there. I'm still trying to figure out my benchwork, but all in good time. I should retire so I have more time to work on my layout. :)

[CBCNSfan]

I should retire so I have more time to work on my layout Hmmm! don't believe it, I'm retired an now have less leisure time than when I was on the job. :D
Cheers Willis

[emt49]

Hi Marc
Hmm! too bad I hadn't checked earlier, Yep I have three routers, But too late for that.

Ok Bob the deed is done, how deep would you like the Go''''' Gorge :D Note in the tunnel the liner is missing, broke right off with the vibration, could have been worse I guess. Anyway lots of room for falls, deep gorge, fast running river ect, no more sawing though, had to relay the track into the tunnel.
Cheers Willis



now you need to make u brakets out of wood and the longer you make them the deeper the gorge will be. then put the pice you cut out back on the brakets you may need to do some trimming to make it fit in the lower spot on the layout as the gorge and river bottem. then shape your scene around it use news paper for conture you want to put window screen around the out side of the brakets to hold the paper in. and then use plaster cloth to cover the news paper. this is just my idea some people may do it diffrent

[CBCNSfan]

then put the pice you cut out back on the brakets OK "U" brackets that's understandable and sounds like a good way to do it :) , but putting the piece I cut out back in is a bit confusing :confused: , Why cut it out in the first place. I think I'm missing a point somewhere here.
Are all the U brackets all the same size or do we make different sizes? I think I'll be going for a deep rugged look here, take away any interest as to where the stream is coming from. (actually a rock wall behind the trestle) :D
Cheers Willis

[emt49]

OK "U" brackets that's understandable and sounds like a good way to do it :) , but putting the piece I cut out back in is a bit confusing :confused: , Why cut it out in the first place. I think I'm missing a point somewhere here.
Are all the U brackets all the same size or do we make different sizes? I think I'll be going for a deep rugged look here, take away any interest as to where the stream is coming from. (actually a rock wall behind the trestle) :D
Cheers Willis

the piece you cut out was at bench leval now your putting it on top of the cross piece of your u brackets wich makes it lower than your bench top.
so 1. you have the shape of the streem and 2. it spans the gaps from one bracket to the other and gives you a solid riverbed.

[emt49]

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=826&stc=1&thumb=1

after looking at the pic more i think you should sim deepness by color. the space betwine the switch and the track that comes out of the tunnel are verry close it might be verry hard to go deep and keep it looking right like it should be there. so make some u brackets to test fit one hight at a time maybe 3" to 4" to 6" deep and install them one at a time in that part of the streem just that part . lay papertowel over it just to see what it looks like and pick the one that looks more like it belongs. then make the brackets for the rest of the streem at the hight you think looked the best

[CBCNSfan]

the space betwine the switch and the track that comes out of the tunnel
Yes that area was causing me a bit of concern, it's 3 3/4" wide at that point. I've lifted the switch and track to see if I can relocate them to give a little more width at that point. If not, I guess I'll have to try something like a cascading fast stream, and that'll be another new one for me. I'm still open to new ideas, no local hobbyshop so I have to order the bridges and that will take awhile.
Cheers Willis

[CBCNSfan]

Yes that area was causing me a bit of concern, it's 3 3/4" wide at that point OK that area is now widened at the narrowest point to 5". Needless to say this caused a 100% relocation of the track in the surrounding area. I believe it actually looks a lot better in the present arrangement. The photo just shows the relocation of the track, more photos on the gorge tomorrow.
Cheers Willis

[emt49]

OK that area is now widened at the narrowest point to 5". Needless to say this caused a 100% relocation of the track in the surrounding area. I believe it actually looks a lot better in the present arrangement. The photo just shows the relocation of the track, more photos on the gorge tomorrow.
Cheers Willis


yes that looks much better and i cant waite to see pics of that river its comming along nicely

[modelbob]

That looks great, it really gives a reason for the canyon to be there. I think it will look excellent when it's completed!

[Lady_Railfan]

Mine was not only influenced, but virtually deslgned with help from a Forum member. The only change we made was to shorten the loop at the far right to allow for another spur. (The yellow track is now at grade with the red line.)

The red/yellow lines represent the current phase. Our next step will be to expand the layout another 20-30 feet to the right to allow a reasonable grade to the upper terrace, which is roughly two feet higher than the lower one.

Yeah, I know. At the rate I've been going, I'll be 90 when this is finished! :D

[CBCNSfan]

Yeah, I know. At the rate I've been going, I'll be 90 when this is finished! You mean you're going to be finished before me? :D
Cheers Willis

[emt49]

You mean you're going to be finished before me? :D
Cheers Willis

hey it could be worse i have had my bench work done and wateing for track for a month. but i could not afford to buy the switches i need 18 on the layout it self not counting my yard . but i got the money now and i got the switches them the other day

[modelbob]

Mine was not only influenced, but virtually deslgned with help from a Forum member....

I have to laugh every time I see that plan. I've got two specialized model railroad design programs 3rd Planit and Cadrail plus Turbocad Pro. Some real serious 3D drafting and rendering horsepower there...

So, one of the few layouts I've designed that actually gets built was done using what program? Microsoft Image Composer, and it looks like I drew it in Crayon. :)

[CBCNSfan]

i got the switches them the other day
I bought the last of my switches and track must have been 8 or 9 years ago. Hope you don't take as long as I did to get started. :D Of course I didn't have any bench work done or lumber for that matter.
Cheers Willis

[Lady_Railfan]

Bob, I hesitated to give you credit for fear you'd be inundated with requests for design help. As for the software, you still need talent and inspiration before any drafting program will work worth beans. You gave me exactly what I needed to stop scratching my head and get started. :)

Willis, I forgot for a moment that a layout is never finished! Yeah, I'll prob'ly be out there with a walker before I'm done with Phase 2. :D

Emt49, it looks like you're off and running! I look forward to hearing more about your progress. And remember, we LOVE pictures around here.

[emt49]

Bob, I hesitated to give you credit for fear you'd be inundated with requests for design help. As for the software, you still need talent and inspiration before any drafting program will work worth beans. You gave me exactly what I needed to stop scratching my head and get started. :)

Willis, I forgot for a moment that a layout is never finished! Yeah, I'll prob'ly be out there with a walker before I'm done with Phase 2. :D

Emt49, it looks like you're off and running! I look forward to hearing more about your progress. And remember, we LOVE pictures around here.


ya willia is looking for pics to for some payback (lol) i asked him to post his pics and the next thing he knew he was cutting his bench work for a river :D

[CBCNSfan]

the next thing he knew he was cutting his bench work for a river
That's Bob's fault! :D
Ok guess the next place to start will be under the trestle. I cleaned out all ( most of) the plaster so here is where the river starts. Sorry but it HAS to be in full flood, to justify the water being up to top of the concrete footings.
These are made out of popscicle sticks. One thickness under the trestle bents and a drop down piece (5 ends glued together) in the front to give the appearance of a larger footing. These pieces will be painted to represent concrete. The water should kind of shoot out (like a Dam spillway)and hide the fact ther really is no depth at all. Ok check the pic and toss in an idea or two because I have absolutely no idea of what I'm doing. Plastering a piece of plywood mixing some colors for a depth look and a coat of varnish is my total experience, and that just won't do here :(
Cheers Willis

[CBCNSfan]

Gee doesn't anyone know how to make a waterfall? :(
Any idea would be welcome.
Cheers Willis

[CBCNSfan]

Ok I tried this out, it needs more work yet but I had to see what it would look like. The cement footings are not glued in place, and neither are the falls, the area under the trestle needs to be varnished yet. So what do you think of it so far. Comments "Yeah or Ney" welcome as I have a long way to go yet.
Cheers Willis

[wpgrailfan]

I like it!

I can almost see salmon fish trying to swim upstream!

[CBCNSfan]

can almost see salmon fish trying to swim upstream! How big would a HO salmon be? Who makes them? Well I have HO sea gulls for another part of the layout :D
Cheers Willis

[galt904]

How big would a HO salmon be?

I once saw one *this* big (stretches arms wide) :D

[CBCNSfan]

stretches arms wide OK 3 feet or so, now who makes some in HO? :D
Cheers Willis

[emt49]

hey hows the project comming along just wondern if you had made anymore progress on the river :D

[CBCNSfan]

just wondern if you had made anymore progress on the river Well I guess you could say quite a bit of progress has been made but a lot more has to be done before it's finished, I'll take a photo tonight. This has been a by the seat of the pants project from the start, so really I have no idea of what it should look like or what I should do to it next. I just do something and if it doesn't look too bad I go on to something else, then sometimes back and redo what's already been done, and on a good night all I need before bed is a tranquilizer Oh well life's like that.
Cheers Willis

[Lady_Railfan]

...and on a good night all I need before bed is a tranquilizer But-but-but... Modeling is supposed to be RELAXING, isn't it???

:D Don't talk to me about that today. I've been messing with the drip system all day. Arghhhhhhhhh.

[CBCNSfan]

I've been messing with the drip system all day. Yep one of them sinus tablets will fix that :D

Ok pretty well up to date took these tonight at different stages of the work err fun!

Next question, theres a choice, should the river be a rapids type stream or should it be a deep fast running stream. What would your choice be? Anyone?
I have to make a beam for under the bridge as really it looks too wimpy, a bridge like that would hold a car maybe but an engine, I doubt it.

[emt49]

it looks real good for a after thought good job
:D


with the waterfall you got going on there i think maybe a river with rapids would fit in better the water will be moving fast cause it just came from the falls.

[CBCNSfan]

it looks real good for a after thought good job yes and for the extra times I had to take the saw to it :D
yes rapids would seem like a better choice and I guess would justify the depth of the gully, and I believe it would look better, but how do you make (fake) water that looks like rapids. Now that's another area of modeling I've never tried.
Cheers Willis

[emt49]

hey man any new progress photos to share. i also saw in a difrent thread that your working a diffrent part of your layout as well so if your busy i understand .

[CBCNSfan]

Hi emt, well actually it's close to the same area, thought I might have gotten a few more suggestions here before I got right into it. It's kind of daunting in a way as this is my first real layout. I'm not sure of what I'm doing and I just keep trying things. I made some rock molds for the river banks tonight so I'll be back at the river soon. There's a hole back of the rocks, to the left of the falls and if I don't plug it modelbob will see it, since you can't see it in the photos I don't know how, but he will see it and I'm frightened to think of what he might suggest I put there or tear out :D
Cheers Willis

[emt49]

hey i know how feal i am on my 2nd meduim layout at 14' x 11' . the frist one was about as big but was never finished . because of bad track laying and planning on my part :o . i hope ths one comes out better

that is also why i am following yours and outher layouts in progress so i can get ideas and tips for mine. :D

[CBCNSfan]

OK have a bit more done, but I'm making another rock mould for the outer riverbank. Still a long ways to go, and I'm getting bored working on this side but I'll try to finish the gorge first.
Anyway here's a couple of pics for now. :D
Cheers Willis

[chrismoore93]

CBCNSfan,
Just wondering, what did you build your river out of?
Thanks,
Chris Moore

[CBCNSfan]

Hi Chris, the bottom is plywood , the sides are styrofoam pieces glued together, sandwiched between the top deck and the plywood bottom, then overlayed with plaster impregnated gauze. The rock work on the riverbanks is made of plaster of Paris from rock moulds, that's about it so far.
Cheers Willis

[emt49]

:eek: wow lookin good i like :D